grama Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I am getting so tired of these things showing up in my pillars. I have tried everything I can think of, adding a little soy, adding vybar, adding UA. I use 4625 & 6% fo, is there a wax it won't happen with? I have some 1343A and just discovered when I looked that the other bag says 1343. OF course CS says it can mottle without additives. What additive would you suggest if this may be a better choice? Didn't use to never get these things until the last year or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen B Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 With the 4625 what temp are you pouring at. That wax the only additive you should need other than FO is UV, try lowering your pour temp. If you're pouring into preheated molds bring it down to 165-170 degrees. I use 1343A and not all UA are a like. Most of the suppliers carry a UA from IGI, and I don't like it. It does not prevent mottling as well and gives me thumbnailing. The UA that RE/AH, and The Candlemakers Store has does a better job, as long as I don't use to much FO and I'm careful with my pour temp.(I just wish I knew what that stuff really was) hth,Karen B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grama Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 Thanks Karen, I pour at 180-185 like the little chart I had said. I will try lowering the pour temp. Decided to try the UA which I think I got from BC years ago, when nothing else was working. Do you think melting them down and the pouring cooler will work? I am desparate - poured 12 pillars and got it in all of them. Have got to make 10 more 4x6's and sure don't want it in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Do you have a picture of it? I've always used 4625 and never had a single bit of mottle. The only thing I can think of is that 1. the wax is mislabeled, 2. It's a bad batch, which adding the vybar would have fixed or 3. It's fingernailing not mottling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grama Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 No Satin, it is not fingernailinig. I had that last summer but when I added little soy and some vybar it took care of it. Downloading pictures now, will have them up in a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grama Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 [ATTACH]15009[/ATTACH][ATTACH]15010[/ATTACH]These were not as bad as another batch that I have remelted and tried pouring cooler to see if that would help. Never used to have this problem except maybe occasionally.First time I have seen this: Cierra candle supply says IGI 4625 142°F meltpoint blended wax for molded pillar and votive candles. 1 tsp Vybar 103 and 3 T. stearic acid per lb wax recommended. Smooth, opaque appearance with excellent hot and cold scent throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen B Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Those pics are 1343 right? I never had very good luck with BCN's UA, that is the IGI stuff I don't like, so try starting with 1/2 tsp vybar 103 and then if you want add stearic for hardness. (I think 1 Tbs)I have a bunch of candles that I put away, they are my experiments with different additives to see how they would burn and what they look like.(I'm weird like that) I found the candles but can't find the notes on the amount of each additive. (agh!!) The vybar/stearic candle has a nice creamy color. With my wicks it needed the stearic for hardness.I preheat my molds just a little so they are warm to the touch and pour at 170. Make sure you pour slowly and see if lowering the pour temp didn't solve your problem. hth,Karen BEdited to add that is 4625? and they recommend adding vybar and stearic. I've lost my mind, I swear 4625 was a preblended wax with everything in it. Maybe I'm getting my waxes confused let me find out what wax I was thinking of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grama Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 Karen those are pics of the 4625 with 1/2 tsp UA in it. I think I am going to try making 1 lb and added the vybar and steric like cierra recomments. I know it is a blended wax and other places say don't needed additives, but at this point I am open to anything. I melted one batch - the worse and repoured them at about 168-170. Probably won't work since they have already snowflaked but will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen B Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 OK ignore the above post but you can save it if you ever want to try 1343. Cierra is the only supplier that says anything about additives. I'm going to say that is a typo because they are a reputable supplier. In the past when I used 4625 I found it picky on the pour temp so try playing with something between 165-170. I pour in my basement which is a little cooler, so I do preheat my molds a little but not too much. When I used that wax I found I needed it need to be poured under 170 in a warmer mold. (not too hot either) My only other suggestion is to try the candle dance before you start making candles. j/k some days are just like that though.maybe someone will have more advice.Karen B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen B Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 hey grama could you let me know how those turn out with the vybar and stearic. Maybe Cierra did add that on purpose because they saw the same thing? Karen B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grama Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 I will - like you said they are reputable and I have always bought certain things from them though not wax. I am thinking maybe they did, they said it was new so they apparently have just started selling it. Hopefully they tried it. Have to run uptown for my "rounds". When I get back will pour using additives like they say. Don't know how much I will get done this pm though. We have revival tonight, actually through tomorrow night and that means stopping early, getting dh supper because he refuses to go anywhere without his supper. That is his main meal. Can't stay up to late tonight cause I overslept badly this am. DH is self employed but still oversleeping is not good:D Will post results. Will also do the candle dance. Gotta try everything at this point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Have you asked them about this? Something is very wrong here unless IGI has just changed their formulas (in which case, I'm gonna be ticked since I'll have to start testing all over again...grrrr). 4625 is pre-blended and should need NO additives. It definitely looks like mottling but I've NEVER seen 4625 do that Peaks description..Melting Point: 145 deg.F (63 deg.C) • Controlled batch consistency. • Does not require the use of additives. • Non-mottling. • Smooth, opaque appearance • Good mold release• Very good burn characteristics• Fragrance oil retention of 6% typically• Working/pouring temperatures should be in the range of 175 to 185 deg.F (80 to 85 deg.C). • Use fragrances specifically designed for candles. * Cierra says the melt point is 142 deg F.... odd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grama Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 When I went to the IGI web site I did not see, unless I didn't know where to look the 4625. Saw a 4625A whatever that means. This has probably been happening on the last 2-3 cases of wax I have bought. Get my wax from CS. I don't know. Been using the 4625 for several years and really just started having trouble with it last year I think. Don't know what is going on. I saw the differening info on the wax from other suppliers. I checked and none of them but cierra say to add additives. Going to try it anyway and see what happens. Will let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassy906 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Grama my 4625 is doing the same:angry2: . I added 3T stearic and I still got them. Part of the candle is rustic which is what I wanted and the last part decided to snowflake! I posted a picture on the other thread about Cierra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Grama my 4625 is doing the same:angry2: . I added 3T stearic and I still got them. Part of the candle is rustic which is what I wanted and the last part decided to snowflake! I posted a picture on the other thread about CierraWhere did the other thread go?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassy906 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Where did the other thread go??SatinDucky I'm glad you found the other thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen B Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Did you happen to get you wax from Candle Science, the reason I ask is because they are wonderful at getting to the bottom of problems like this. It seems like they are better at getting a real answer from IGI than any of us candle makers are. If 1/2 tsp vybar was to much try just using 1/8 tsp or even just a couple of beads and see what happens. I could give you other additive I have found help to inhibit mottling. In your case since 4625 might already have some vybar in it one of my other ideas may do a better job. That is *if* you want to go through that kind of trouble. JMHO but if you are going to start playing with additives you might want to think about going to a straight paraffin wax then. I'm starting to wonder if that A might mean something. Just like we all found out the A in 1343 made a difference in our candles too.Anyone not getting the mottling in their 4625 and do they have a letter after the 4625 on the box? Karen B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Anyone not getting the mottling in their 4625 and do they have a letter after the 4625 on the box? Karen BI don't, but then I've had this a long time. I take the slabs from the boxes when I open it and put it in plastic totes, so no box here. Actually, not even a whole slab left here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camay Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I opened a new case of 4625 from CS in January. Many of the pillars I have poured from this case have snowflakes, and some have full mottling. A few grains of Vybar 103 seems to stop the mottle, but not the snowflakes. It is not every single time, which makes it frustrating. Some pillars have come out perfect. (I pour at 175 *F, warmed molds, 5.5% FO, 0.5 t/pound Peak UV inhibitor.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 A few grains of Vybar 103 seems to stop the mottle, but not the snowflakes. Huh? What's the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camay Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I mean what I call a snowflake is a whitish irregularity and there will be a few of them over the surface of the pillar, whereas mottling is an all over pattern. Maybe I've got the terms mixed up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondk Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 This is not sounding good and I am also almost out of the 4625. I guess more testing for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatinDucky Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I mean what I call a snowflake is a whitish irregularity and there will be a few of them over the surface of the pillar, whereas mottling is an all over pattern. Maybe I've got the terms mixed up?They're basically the same thing. Snowflakes are usually referred to when it's just a few spots or when it's a new person who doesn't know the effect has a name... mottle. But still the same effect, with the same causes and cures Unless I'm having another brain fart.... which seems to happening more and more often This is not sounding good and I am also almost out of the 4625. I guess more testing for me. I know the feeling! Got that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach :undecided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondk Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I think if I am going to have to start adding additives to the 4625 I will just go back to my testing 1343 to get what I want. At least I have a couple of slabs broken up of that. :undecided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camay Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 [ATTACH]15015[/ATTACH]I made a two pound batch: 32 oz 4625, 1 t UV inhibitor, 0.25 maize chip, 0.25 bright green chip, 2 ounces lemongrass FO (candlesource), first pour at 175 *F, second pour at 185 *F. Mold is 3" dia x 4.5" h, prewarmed.Completely cooled, then unmolded, and got all over mottles (left photo)Melted remaining wax, added a few grains of vybar 103, poured again with same conditions as above (candle on right). This one has a few randomly placed white spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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