Negative Feedback

[Tereasa]

I would like to share my experience with a well known and respected part of the community.

I hired StudioBeck to design a logo for me. From the initial contact form on her website to each and every email we shared, I drove home the point that I wanted something that was different and unique.

I bought a font for the look I wanted. I forwarded this to her, explaining that I had bought it because I wished for a look that nobody else had. I forwarded it to her in good faith.

She designed a logo for me. I was happy with it, but as I mentioned in another thread, I decided to go in a bit of a different direction and chose another name. I designed a logo, and with the help of Jadryga, polished it into something I'm very proud of. I used the same font that I'd forwarded to StudioBeck, as I thought it was still a unique look.

I noticed a short time later that there was another logo on StudioBeck's portfolio page utilizing the font that I had forwarded to her. I didn't say anything, as that company had nothing to do with candles, bath & body, etc.

Then I saw it on a webset/logo she'd designed. At that point, I emailed her and made no bones about how disappointed I was. She said that what was done was done, but that she was sorry. She said she wouldn't use the font again.

That was a little over two months ago.

Now, within the last 10 days, this font is again being utilized for a significant fragrance oil supplier.

I understand that I can't copyright a font I purchased. I feel betrayed and am very, very disappointed. I know I have no legal recourse, but I think that my experience should be shared.

To give a bit of contrast...

When I decided to go a different way with my business name/look, etc. I hired Mandi Allen Design to design a webset. Again, I forwarded the font I'd purchased to her so she could utilize it in the design. A bit later, I noticed this font in another web topper Mandi had designed. Within one hour of emailing her, that topper was down and replaced with another. She sincerely apologized, and I believe that she was sincere that she'd simply made a mistake.

There are many, many good graphic artists out there... I'd like to encourage people to look around, and not jump on a bandwagon...

Thank you for listening...

[Lifelace]

Hi there, I'm sorry you had such a negative experience...as a graphic designer though I wanted to put in my 2 cents. First of all, if she is an honest and experienced designer, she wouldn't use a font without purchasing it herself or use it only once if the customer bought it and then delete it from her computer after that project was done. The fact that she appologized etc...probably means she just kept the font you sent and used it again, which is not right. But her wrong doing ends there IMO. While it might bug you and dissapoint you, you definitely don't have any right to the font and how it is used and she should not have to ask your permission to use it on a 100 logos if she wants to. I don't think she deserved having a thread like this because the only thing she really did wrong is use it again without paying, and honestly countless designers do that (I most definitely don't though, but we're not all the same). Designers will often use pirated software (like Illustrator or Photoshop for example) and they will often use brushes, actions, fonts and so on without the right to them. It's a big pet peeve of mine but such is life.

The fact that she used it again and basically made your look not unique is simply something that bugs you and you felt the need to vent about that, I don't think she deserved a negative thread for that, whoever she is (I have never heard of her). I personally would NOT have done that because I feel it reflects negatively in the sense that someone was looking through my portfolio (if I had one) they would see the same fonts over and over and think I have limited imagination but other than that there is nothing wrong with using that font on any number of clients if she purchased it for commercial use. Because honestly, if she had told you she paid for it and even showed you the receipt I think you would still be just as upset because really it's the fact that it's no longer an original idea that bothers you. I personally would also have been upset in your place, but being upset doesn't mean you are right. For example, if I lose an eBay auction on an item I really wanted at the last minute I would be peeved but the winner did not do anything wrong. Know what I mean? Again, she shouldn't have used the font again without paying for the commercial licence but that is not what's bothering you. Her using it again (say she had indeed paid the rights) is a bit <<cheesy>> but not wrong at all. My 2 cents!

Melany

[funkymonkey66]

I bought a font for the look I wanted. I forwarded this to her, explaining that I had bought it because I wished for a look that nobody else had. I forwarded it to her in good faith.

No I see your point entirely. She should have respected that you wanted to be original and not used it for other clients.

[HeavenScentU]

I trust any info. I give to anyone that I enter into a business relationship to be confidential and not be used without the persons knowledge. It isn't right. I have given my sales reps. fonts to update flyers with my name and products on them, but they have never used them for any other purpose. That is too bad that happened to you.

[Tereasa]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies.

I'd just like to address the first reply...

I didn't post to be judged or told that what I'm doing is right or wrong. Even you admit that, best case scenario, what happened was 'cheesy'.

I do believe that this board's mantra is to be able to leave feedback for suppliers, whether good or bad. Personally, I would like to know about other people's interactions with people who influence what we do. I would like to know that if a designer I hire to help me with a look that represents me and my products is, to quote you... 'cheesy'.

[MissMary]

AFAIC, using a font a customer forwards for a unique look, since you paid for this logo, is only to be used by that customer.

To me this says this person does not have confidence that they already have a good product line to offer.

Yes, you don't own the font, but you gave it in good faith. If I picked colors out and asked someone for a logo (I do logos for others, but if I needed someone else), I don't own the color scheme either, but I would trust, as a business person, that they won't use that scheme for any one else either.

[Lifelace]

Hi Tereasa, ok, I feel I was misunderstood. When I said her wrong doing ends there, I meant legally (you said you knew you had no legal recourse so it did cross your mind). Legally she is not allowed to use a font commercially if that font has not been bought for that purpose. And she did that since she didn't buy it, you did, so she is definitely wrong about that but by reading your post I felt there were 2 issues: 1- the fact that you sent her the font and she used it again on other clients knowing she hadn't bought it herself (and I agree with you on that 100%) and 2- that you were upset that by doing that your idea was no longer original (while I agree that is bad business and cheesy it's not wrong legally by any means). If she HAD bought the font herself (as a designer, I have bought a ton of fonts), the second part would have still bothered you.

I didn't mean to sound as if I thought you shouldn't post your comments and your feelings. Reading my thread again I realized it seemed that way (when I said she didn't deserve a thread) and I appologize for that, I just felt I needed to clarify some things so that people understand what a designer is and is not allowed to do. Remember though that on a public forum like this a person has a right to disagree with you (in part or totally) and post those feelings as well.

You also mentioned buying the font and giving it to her, by buying a font you do not own it, you simply buy the rights to use it commercially so you didn't give it to her, only the font's designer can do that. I did say I thought what she did was cheesy and just all around bad business. I know YOU sent the font to her, I just wanted to make sure you and everyone else knows that is SHE had bought it she can legally use it on as many clients as she wants, as cheesy as it may be.

MissMaryAFAIC, using a font a customer forwards for a unique look, since you paid for this logo, is only to be used by that customer.

That is true only if the customer bought the font, but if the designer creates a logo using a font SHE (the designer) bought, then she does not have to use it only on ONE customer. As much as a customer might want that, it's simply not how it works.

A GOOD designer would respect a client's wishes to remain unique for sure but legally she doesn't have to do that.

Honestly, if you bought it off Myfonts.com for example, thousands of people, mostly designers, shop there and buy fonts so your favorite font can turn up in anybody else's website at any time and there is no reason to expect anything else.

If a person creates a font they then decide what to do with it. They can decide that it will be distributed as a freebie for personal use, a freebie for any kind of use, a paid font for personal use, a paid font for any kind of use or a font designed specifically for one company at a much higher price.

If you truly want a font just for you then you need to hire a font designer and have them create one specifically for you and it will cost you much more than buying one directly from a fonts site. Simple as that.

Same with stock photos, if you buy one if can be bought by a million other people and they are not wrong for doing that, if you want to have exclusive rights to it you need to pay for the exclusive rights and that is not something most of us can afford. Only big companies will do that.

Bottomline: Legally she should not have used the font again on other clients since she didn't buy the font. Business wise, if she HAD bought the font she can use it on as many clients as she wants (legally) but that is definitely not a <<good>> thing, it just makes a designer look bad.

Melany

[Tereasa]

Thank you for your clarification, Lifelace...

She may have bought the font... nobody but she will ever know for sure if she did or not.

My font was design 4/4-there were 3 other versions of that font available for purchase. The one she is still using is exactly like the one I bought.

You are correct, I'm upset about my look no longer being unique. If you go to many DIY estores, how many candle/b & b sites look like cookie cutter websets? If that is the look someone wants, good on them. I wanted something different. I went out of my way to achieve that. Had I not sent her that font, I would still have a unique look. That is my point. Regardless if she bought the font or not...

I've been making candles for years... and I hired her way back in early summer to design this logo. I'm still not at a point where I feel I'm ready to 'go live' on the web or to sell. I don't want to do anything half-assed. I want my ducks in a row, and things to be right. Now, I feel like beginning again with the design process. Call me silly, that's fine... I've been called much worse....

[Lifelace]

Hi again, I completely agree 100% with you, sooooooo many soap and candle websites (well any small online shop really) all look alike with just a few minor differences but not many of them you will actually remember. There are many candle and soap sites out there, I definitely think you need to stand out to be successful. You (not YOU but people in general) might have wonderful products but if your website doesn't grab people's attention they won't stick around long enough to get to know the products and possibly order.

I absolutely believe the designer you mentioned used the font again without the rights to it and that sucks that she would do that to you especially after you made a point of saying you wanted to stay unique. It does show she doesn't care about her customers (could she possibly have been mad at you for going with someone else for the final design?....Just a thought, maybe she was mean on purpose). I think any good designer would have respected your wishes without blinking an eye. When you say this though Had I not sent her that font, I would still have a unique look you have to think that anybody can browse your site and decide they like it and copy it. I've seen it done so many times it makes me sick.

In any case, I have no doubt you will still come up with something totally cool and unique for your website and people will love it, remember it and come back to it again and again. Good luck!

Melany

[MissMary]

Oh I know a designer could buy it on their own to use, but my point was just in good business practice.

As far as going to a site and being able to snag the font, well, yes and no. You can, but there are millions of fonts out there, and the search would be insanely tedious to find unless you posted up the style of font you used and where you got it, so it's not just as simple as looking at it and getting it, like it is with a designer you might entrust with giving the info to.

But like I said, it boils down to the person having good customer experience as opposed to taking whatever people send in, and even going to buy it for themselves (if they did of course), because that's still bad service IMO.

[bubblygrl]

IMO, I would have just emailed her a note on how you felt rather than splamming her on this website...

[TraciS]

Millions of sites have the same fonts and are still unique. When I had my logo designed I sent a picture of a curly letter that I liked and my designer located a font that was similar and now I use it on everything. It could have been the same font you use, who knows? The only way to be truly unique is to get a logo you love and do your own site instead of buying other people's work. It's hard to be unique for long but you will find that out if you decide to sell or make your site live.

Not sure I agree with making it seem as though the designer didn't go find that font and buy it for her own business needs, she very well could have. If it's available for sale, why not?

[cindym]

Hey you had no copyright rights to that font. It is not even yours. You bought it from someone else. If you could have copywritten it you would have, but you can't because it is not yours. Becky is very talented at what she does and this seems like just a bit of a slam. She stole nothing from you because you did not own it in the first place. Sorry you are dissappointed, is you logo protected?

[Maggie]

I would like to share my experience with a well known and respected part of the community.

I hired StudioBeck to design a logo for me. From the initial contact form on her website to each and every email we shared, I drove home the point that I wanted something that was different and unique.

I bought a font for the look I wanted. I forwarded this to her, explaining that I had bought it because I wished for a look that nobody else had. I forwarded it to her in good faith.

She designed a logo for me. I was happy with it, but as I mentioned in another thread, I decided to go in a bit of a different direction and chose another name. I designed a logo, and with the help of Jadryga, polished it into something I'm very proud of. I used the same font that I'd forwarded to StudioBeck, as I thought it was still a unique look.

I noticed a short time later that there was another logo on StudioBeck's portfolio page utilizing the font that I had forwarded to her. I didn't say anything, as that company had nothing to do with candles, bath & body, etc.

Then I saw it on a webset/logo she'd designed. At that point, I emailed her and made no bones about how disappointed I was. She said that what was done was done, but that she was sorry. She said she wouldn't use the font again.

That was a little over two months ago.

Now, within the last 10 days, this font is again being utilized for a significant fragrance oil supplier.

I understand that I can't copyright a font I purchased. I feel betrayed and am very, very disappointed. I know I have no legal recourse, but I think that my experience should be shared.

To give a bit of contrast...

When I decided to go a different way with my business name/look, etc. I hired Mandi Allen Design to design a webset. Again, I forwarded the font I'd purchased to her so she could utilize it in the design. A bit later, I noticed this font in another web topper Mandi had designed. Within one hour of emailing her, that topper was down and replaced with another. She sincerely apologized, and I believe that she was sincere that she'd simply made a mistake.

There are many, many good graphic artists out there... I'd like to encourage people to look around, and not jump on a bandwagon...

Thank you for listening...

I know very little about designing website, fonts and whatever but...Tereasa took her at her word when she said she wouldn't use the font again.

I think THIS is the point that Tereasa is trying to make.

I don't know Studio Beck and I don't know Tereasa but geeeeesh...I would be pissed to if someone "fibbed" to me.

You can go on and on about the great work this person does etc. but IF it happened to you...wouldn't you be pissed too? Who is to say that Studio Beck knew or didn't know this font existed. As soon as Tereasa emails it to her then it all of a sudden it appears other places. Perfect timing maybe? LOL

Maggie

[TraciS]

I just wouldn't get upset about a font. Maybe the designer meant she wouldn't use Teresa's version and she then found the font for herself, who knows as the designer isn't here to defend herself. The designer has every right to use any font in the public domain just like any of us can do, they aquire the rights to use it just like we do.

I really think this complaint should have been handled in private and not in public.

[Tereasa]

if everyone would please READ my first post!!

I did handle this privately over two months ago. StudioBeck agreed not to use the font again. Had she simply stuck to that, I wouldn't have taken this public route. I didn't even message or tell the person who the webset was designed for. I kept it private between Beckie and me. She didn't keep her end of the bargain.

ETA: she's been accused of plagiarism before... simple searches will take one to those threads...

[sockmonkey]

The issue is who had the actual LICENSE to use the font? If someone buys a font, they don't own the copyright to it, but they are granted a license to use it. Some fonts are public domain and anyone is entitled to use them, but even then, the owner can put restrictions it them, such as whether or not they can be used commercially.

A different situation exists when you purchase a font. Only the buyer is granted the license to use the font. The buyer may work with a designer or a print shop to create a product using that font, but does not transferred the license of that font to either one of them. They are not allowed to make a copy of the font for their own library and then use it again and again for subsequent projects that do not belong to the owner. To do so is illegal. Is it done all the time? Sure. It's kind of like a music cd. You buy one and loan it to a friend. Legally, your friend can't make a copy and then give copies of their copy to all of their friends. When that happens the music industry and artists lose money. It's not any different when it comes to fonts. You get caught doing it and fines can be involved.

[mizbizzyb]

The person that did my site didn't have the font I used - so I bought it and sent it to her...needless to say the next 2-3 websites she did had that font. I was like dayum! I didn't email her cause I know the font is able to be purchased and it wasn't any need for me to get upset over something that I thought could be changed. I did contact Beckie to redo things on my site in a different font, as she did the logo for me a while back and Beckie would not touch my site again without the designers consent. I didn't want to go thru all that so I left things be until my next redesign. So if I had to make an assumption, they probably was done prior to agreeing not to use it again.

This is not taking sides, just an assumption based on my contact with Beckie about 2-3 months ago to request her to change the font on my site which she was adament about not doing without the original designers consent.

[sockmonkey]

Not taking sides here either, but looking at it from a legal business perspective. I guess a good question to ask any designer up front is if they have a particular font. If the answer is no and then you buy it, you should stipulate that only you hold the license to it, and therefore they are not allowed to use it for any purpose other than the job you have contracted for. If they will not agree, find another designer.

[mizbizzyb]

Not taking sides here either, but looking at it from a legal business perspective. I guess a good question to ask any designer up front is if they have a particular font. If the answer is no and then you buy it, you should stipulate that only you hold the license to it, and therefore they are not allowed to use it for any purpose other than the job you have contracted for. If they will not agree, find another designer.

That is true...however since fonts are able to be purchased by anyone on the internet- does that stop the designer from purchasing the font themselves and adding it to their collection for future use? Will that violate the agreement? I wouldn't think so

[sockmonkey]

Clearly not. Nothing is stopping anyone from purchasing anything at any time; but if it's ever reported or questioned by the person who owns the actual copyright (not just the person who bought the license), they better be able to provide proof of purchase, and it better pre-date the receipt of their disgruntled customer.

People who get caught using illegal copies can be hit pretty hard financially, especially if they profit from its use in a commercial manner.

I worked at a printing company where it happened. An employee quit, and promptly reported the company for having unlicensed software installed on their computers (which included unlicensed fonts). All of the computers were audited and they got busted. They faced hefty fines but were able to negotiate them to a lesser amount.

I'm speaking in generic terms here, offering warnings to anyone who considers doing it. I'm not suggesting that anything of the kind has taken place here or not.

[Tereasa]

I don't understand why people think that this should be private. Here is a link to one of the instances of StudioBeck being accused of copying:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7651&d=1154728773

Here is a link explaining about that:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29294&highlight=beckie

Yet another instance on CT where StudioBeck has been accused of wrong doing:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33009&highlight=beckie

[email part removed]

Sooo.... I have proof of her lying to me. There are other threads in which she's been accused of serious wrong doing. And whenever someone brings this to public, THEY are the ones chastised for speaking up. Why on earth should this be kept quiet? Why should someone who speaks about it be chastised? I know that she has a fan club, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But why is someone with a negative opinion immediately attacked for stating it? There are only so many times a person in a position such as hers can make excuses.

Sockmonkey, would you happen to know who I would need to contact to report this? Perhaps it is beyond time that an outside party does some investigating and gets to the bottom of a few things. I would appreciate any information you could give me in regards to how to report this. Thanks!

[usairforce]

I have read all the posts about this designer and I would definitely not recommend her to anyone. I don't really say alot around CT, but I have been here awhile...I read alot! I think you did the right thing, Tereasa by naming her so folks won't go through the same thing you have. Thank You.

Hugs, Branda

[SliverOfWax]

It doesn't seem to be a legal issue, but rather, a breach of trust.

Any experience with a supplier, which imo would be translated as someone who takes money for goods or services, should be reported. The facts speak for themselves. It's really not necessary for people to jump on the bandwagon screaming "foul". Facts are facts and can not be ignored.

I have zero experience with this supplier but I appreciate reading facts. It's no different than reporting that an oil didn't throw, and not nearly as subjective.

[bubblygrl]

I don't understand why people think that this should be private. Here is a link to one of the instances of StudioBeck being accused of copying:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7651&d=1154728773

Here is a link explaining about that:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29294&highlight=beckie

Yet another instance on CT where StudioBeck has been accused of wrong doing:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33009&highlight=beckie

An except from the email I received from her dated 11/13/07:

"I am a fair person that only wants the best for my clients, as I have done

this for almost 20 years now. If you have a resolution to this situation, I

am all ears. I most certainly will not be using this font with anyone else,

as I do not want to upset you, I want to do all in my power to keep the

peace. I will mention that I have had many clients in the past find a font

that they request they be the only one to use and I keep it that way for

them (at least through my use). "

Sooo.... I have proof of her lying to me. There are other threads in which she's been accused of serious wrong doing. And whenever someone brings this to public, THEY are the ones chastised for speaking up. Why on earth should this be kept quiet? Why should someone who speaks about it be chastised? I know that she has a fan club, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But why is someone with a negative opinion immediately attacked for stating it? There are only so many times a person in a position such as hers can make excuses.

Sockmonkey, would you happen to know who I would need to contact to report this? Perhaps it is beyond time that an outside party does some investigating and gets to the bottom of a few things. I would appreciate any information you could give me in regards to how to report this. Thanks!

You say you aren't slamming and then post this?, WOW...nice...and report what? this font isn't copyrighted so really what do you have to go on? if I were you I would just move on.