Jo Ann Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 i finally was able to get palm oil and start making soap with it only to find out today, its not considered green to use palm oil because the rain forest is being destroyed to produce it.sigh..i just bought a gallon of it. i suppose i can rationalize that i don't use much of it and its to make healthy skin products......and for as much soap as i make, it shouldn't even make a dent....but heck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 You can rationalize to yourself, but those who have gone green will stay away from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Ann Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 yeah, i know what ya mean. it was surprise to find out palm oil was in such demand, i knew corm was.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 It's been that way. When I started soaping I got on the palm bandwagon and still working on some ... then came the discussion about the destruction of the rain forests ... and it's always something. Not that I'm against green, but it's hard to go green in products when the attitude changes so much ... for instance, no lard either, a good replacement for palm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Ann Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 i was just gonna ask about a good replacement, but lard isn't all that hard. what is another good hard oil...i don't want to use more than 20 percent of coconut, cuz its a bit harsh on my skin....and i am selling some of it, so another incentive to keep coconut down a bit. i like the soft soap, but not everyone does....i try to be green, but next we won't be allowed to exhale cuz of the CO2 in our exhalations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Ann Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 soap box! i have asthma and copd, but because of the ozone they are taking away our aeresol inhalers cuz of the ozone. well the powders they are replacing them with don't work as well, (they can glop up at the back of the throat and not go all the way into the lungs) but i can live with that EXCEPT in my rescue inhaler, the powder doesn't work well in a full blown attack. soooooo i am a bit scared about switching to powder when that becomes law for albuterol. so far, my doctor marks the scripts so i get the aeresol...but when that is gone, not sure what i am gonna do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidsngarden Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Lard bars are plenty hard! I prefer them to palm. I'm using up the last of my palm now. I still use lard, so I guess I'm not all that green, but I don't like palm so deforestation is a good reason to get rid of it!Bethany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 These environmental concerns mean there's too much palm being used versus the amount that can be produced by sustainable practices. The demand has to be reduced and/or the supply of sustainable palm has to increase.My view is that the problem is caused by big business and will be solved by big business. There is no implication that the world should not use any palm oil, so I have no problem using it. I don't see why small soap makers should take the burden on themselves.The problem I personally have with palm is paying more in raw material costs to produce soap that probably isn't as good, in order to accommodate yet another fad of the over-privileged. I've kinda "had it up to here" with the things that make uptight people say "ick". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I figure many will be looking to replace palm as its price on the rise as well. I'm hearing coconut is up, soy, palm, emu and who knows what else. Yep, lard makes a plenty hard bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Tallow is going up too. In fact major commercial soap companies are right now reformulating to reduce the tallow in their soaps - that's how serious it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Crazy start to the year ... all of sudden, boom, here come increases that aren't really that minor of an increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Ann Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 i reformulated the batch i am making today. actually i loved my first bar the best and it had no palm, a little to much coconut, but hey i can fix that. i can get lard by the bucket at walmart for a reasonable price.....and canola as well at sam's club....now i heard canola will go rancid, any opinions on this. i like it cuz its cheap and has omega 3 oils in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Eventually it will, like any oil. Some oils have longer shelf lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carriegsxr6 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I would say rainforests are probably being detroyed more in order to make Palm wax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Ann Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 I would say rainforests are probably being detroyed more in order to make Palm waxfunny thing, in south america and mexico, its sugar and tequila that are in danger because of people switching to corn. who knows, maybe corn will help cut back on cocaine growth as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidsngarden Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 About what top said...I do agree that with all this hype about soy and paraffin, palm and lard, etc, etc. it seems crazy to change because of it. Here everyone was so jazzed about soy candles and now we hear bad things about that too. But I also think that customers will be LOOKING for soaps that are palm free. they will hear the hype and look for it. Just like parabens, just like animal oils. On the net my best sellers are all Veggie EO bars. In person my very best sellers are lard bars fragranced with fragrance oil. People smell and feel the difference and are back for more so I keep going with my bars with lard and FO in them. If I was totally reliant on web sales I'm sure I would have to eventually phase them out due to not being "cruelty free" Because I don't like palm anyway I'm more than happy to step in with the hype and elminate it from my soap, and even more so because those bars that have palm in them are selling online right now, and may not if I don't change the formulations.Bethany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Ann Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 i like the lard bars too. it just feels better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 What Top said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmejeffd Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I'm not changing my recipe. In fact, I just bought 50 lbs of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb31apb Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 soap box! i have asthma and copd, but because of the ozone they are taking away our aeresol inhalers cuz of the ozone. well the powders they are replacing them with don't work as well, (they can glop up at the back of the throat and not go all the way into the lungs) but i can live with that EXCEPT in my rescue inhaler, the powder doesn't work well in a full blown attack. soooooo i am a bit scared about switching to powder when that becomes law for albuterol. so far, my doctor marks the scripts so i get the aeresol...but when that is gone, not sure what i am gonna do.I don't mean to be nosey or even to hijack this post, but I am an RT and I was just having this conversation with a DR last night at work. Are you using a spacer with your puffs? The blue corrugated tubing works, but I would ask your doc to prescribe you a proper spacer. Spacers improve particle deposition up to 80% and you get 80-90% MORE medicine in your lungs when you use them. PM me and I can give you a few names of them you can ask about. You shouldn't have to live feeling afraid that you won't be able to breath! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAS Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I use tallow and lard. I got into a "discussion" with another soaper who soulfully told me that she just couldn't bear the thought of using soap with animal FAT. I told her that I respected her views but that animal OIL came from animals that were not killed for the specific purpose of making my soap, and that using the tallow made it more earth friendly because all parts of the animal were utilized to create something beneficial. Then I went on to say how palm harvesting was displacing native populations, not to mention the poor orangutans. She shut up.I understand you can get sustainable palm - anyway that is what some web sites claim. TAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidsngarden Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 TAS - this is exactly what I say about animal oils. Really, they don't kill a pig for lard. Lard is a byproduct of meat. Of course it is very marketable for baking and soaping, but if the world stopped eating pork (or beef for that matter) then killing an animal for animal oils, just to waste the meat would be bad, I think. Lard is considered so insignificant to our local butchers around here if I want to render it myself (which I keep saying I will do!!!!) I can get it for FREE. That tells me that whatever someone doesn't take is tossed... when I get set up to be able to render outside I really hope to render it myself. I raise a lot of my own meat and it would be awesome to soap with those oils. accept I primarily do goats and rabbits which are so lean you get nothing off them. But the occasional pig would be nice to render the lard.Bethany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Ann Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 I don't mean to be nosey or even to hijack this post, but I am an RT and I was just having this conversation with a DR last night at work. Are you using a spacer with your puffs? The blue corrugated tubing works, but I would ask your doc to prescribe you a proper spacer. Spacers improve particle deposition up to 80% and you get 80-90% MORE medicine in your lungs when you use them. PM me and I can give you a few names of them you can ask about. You shouldn't have to live feeling afraid that you won't be able to breath!i am an RN and I specialize in home pulmonary education so no you are not being nosey. when i butt iin i don't feel nosey, cuz its just a need to teach i have LOL the spiriva doesn't use a spacer and my flovent gunks up the spacer.....so i just use it straight...but the spiriva gunks up at the back of my thoat too. i used to use asthmacort and didn't need a spacer for that and i can't always use a spacer with my albuterol, cuz i can't always carry one with me....but i have no problem with my aeresol albuteral. and its costly to buy spacers especially if your insurance doesn't cover them. they kinda treat them like dm testing supplies. alot of my patients on powedered albuterol are freakin cuz its not as effective and doesn't work as fast.its shame that we have to lose our aeresol inhalers but there are plenty of trucks cars trains and planes out there. sigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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