Grrr, frustrated with palm :(

[becky0404]

I just can't seem to get it right! I follow directions, I use 7% fo and I have tried many "strong throwers" and still I'm not getting a candle I like. Yes, I have had success with a few fo's but most of them that I have tried don't work well. I'm not having any luck with cold throw now. To me, it's not as important as hot throw (because right now I only make for myself, not sell) but down the road if I do sell I want a candle that smells good cold too.

Maybe someone with a lot of experience with palm can tell me what I'm doing wrong. I heat a bunch (unmeasured) wax to 200 using a double boiler method, and then add the wax to a different pot that has premeasured fo in it (warmed in the oven so the fo doesn't lower the temp of the wax when I add it). The pot I use to put the fo in has a line on it to where I pour the warmed wax to. This I had premeasured once and is an accurate 16 oz. (by weight). I then stir for about 3 minutes and then pour immediately.I do have to poke relief holes and then once it's hardened up I either use my broiler or a heat gun (hair dryer) to melt the tops and the melted wax fills in the holes.

What am I doing wrong? I really want to get this wax figured out . I have tried CS frost palm and currently am using S & P's veggie/palm. I have used mostly Bert's fo's (b/c they are cheap in cost, I admit). I have used some good throwers from her (xmas tree, candy cane, and a couple others) and I have tried a few from the candle source (J &J bedtime bath, melonberry, spicy apples and peaches) and I have just had "ok" results. They throw, but not GREAT and the cold throw is much to be desired.

Does anyone have any advice for me? I'm tempted to go back to soy. :undecided

[jennhalcyon]

I don't know what to say Becky...except that if anything my cold throw is phenomenal and I have to work harder to get the hot throw. But once you get an FO that will throw, it THROWS! I should say, though, that I am using Glass Glow. Could it be your method?? I don't prewarm my oil, but is it possible that it is getting too hot and burning off some of the fragrance before it even gets to see the wax? Sounds like you are mixing well and the wax temp seems fine. I don't know, just a thought. I'm sure some wiser folks will chime in.

Good luck. I hope you get it figured out.

[funnygirl]

I add a little soy votive wax to my palm to assist in throw, both hot and cold. It makes a HUGE difference! I use 1 oz. soy votive pp of palm wax. It doesn't affect the look of the palm crystals at all. HTH!

[Stella1952]

Does anyone have any advice for me? I'm tempted to go back to soy. :undecided

Go back to soy.

[cleanglow]

I get an excellent hot and cold throw. As a matter of fact, I just poured some of CS's Violet & Lime today and this evening, when our heater kicked on, my entire family room was filled with the scent just from the air hitting the candles.

I use Glass Glow & 6% fo. I poke relief holes and then refill after the candles have cooled completely. I also weigh the wax that I pour from the melter into a pour pot every time. I know you said you're using 7% fo, but maybe it's the specific oils you are using? I heat my wax in a melter to about 215, then mix color & scent in pour pot. I've personally never heard of warming the fo 1st, maybe that's part of the problem but again I'm not really sure.

Not sure if I helped much, sorry.

[jakalex]

I do not know the specs on the palm wax blend you are using but I do not go over 5% FO load in any of the CS palm waxes and I get great results.

Also, cheaper is not always better and vise versa. I would try a good grade FO such as CS, MC, snowtop/ICS etc.

[sharig]

Also, cheaper is not always better and vise versa. I would try a good grade FO such as CS, MC, snowtop/ICS etc.

Hey girl,

Not sure if you have tried Bert's oils yet! But trust me, they are the bomb! By no means are they 2nd quality or diluted. They are some of the strongest I've found. You should give them a try if you get a chance, can't beat her prices. She is super sweet as well!

[Judy, USMC]

Try going back to the basics. Heat the wax to at least 205 (cleanglow is even going to 215), pour 1 lb of your melted wax into the pour pot, put in 1 oz of your FO (that would load it up to 5.9%; 1.2 oz will give you 7%) Stir for just a couple of minutes - I've never gone over 1. And pour immediately. Try to target the pour temp range for the wax you're using.

Pre-warming the oils is not necessary if the wax temp is high enough, and warming in the oven could be affecting the oil - especially if it's in there a while.

And keep in mind that all the FOs that throw in soy will not throw in palm. Regarding oils - Bert's Redwood & Cedar is doing excellent for me in the Glass Glow (4 oz hex container @ 6% with CSN11 wick.) The ones that throw really well will do so no matter who/where you get them from. Bert's comes from a reputable manufacturer and are only less expensive because of her low overhead and low profit margin.

Hope that helps!

[bells4shells]

Did I read that right? You're pouring your fo into an unmeasured amount of wax? I've been working with palm for awhile now (don't claim to know it all, so keep that in mind - haha). As everyone else has mentioned.. heating your oil may have a hand in your decreased throw.

The quality of oil is going to matter as well. I am in my testing phase for fo's, but I love the sites that give a rating of how well the throw is for soy wax, like CS. All of the ones I got with the highest throw per their site, have been AWESOME in my palm.

btw, who's bert and does she have a site? linky please?

[becky0404]

Thank you all!!!! I'll keep trying and I think I'll stop warming my oil first. I'll see if that helps

[Lantern Light Mama]

I premeasure my wax in 1 lb increments, and use 1oz of FO per 1lb wax. I heat the wax to 200 (I use palm wax from JBN), add 1 Tbsp of palm stearic acid, and my color chips. Once all that is mixed and at 200, I pour in my FO. This is all happening in a Presto. I stir very well, make sure it's still at 200, then put in a pouring pot and pour into molds at room temp. My candles scent the room just by sitting in them, nevermind buring them. Good luck. My FO's are from JBN as well. I just love them.

[Stella1952]

Becky, please check the accuracy of your thermometer. Using a double boiler at sea level, the temperature of the water cannot exceed 212°F. It is tough to get the wax to rise to 200°F in a double boiler. For best results with a double boiler, the hot water needs to be at the same level as the wax (so the heat surrounds the wax) and that's hard to achieve. The best we were able to achieve was 188°F, which is why we scrapped the double boiler early on as a method for melting quantities of wax.

If your measuring methods are not accurate, your outscomes will be affected aversely. Use a SCALE to measure your ingredients accurately and do not assume that the readings are accurate. Test your thermometer in boiling water (rolling boil). It should read 212° unless you are significantly above or below sea level.

[Judy, USMC]

The quality of oil is going to matter as well. I am in my testing phase for fo's, but I love the sites that give a rating of how well the throw is for soy wax, like CS. All of the ones I got with the highest throw per their site, have been AWESOME in my palm.

btw, who's bert and does she have a site? linky please?

Grab a cup of coffee and a comfortable chair. This is the link - and the thread is a long one! There's no link to a website - she doesn't have one yet!

www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58339&highlight=bert%27s

[Stella1952]

Even the finest of FOs will not help if one doesn't measure ingredients and temperatures accurately and choose the correct wick!

[CareBear]

The best we were able to achieve was 188°F, which is why we scrapped the double boiler early on as a method for melting quantities of wax.

Really? I've checked the accuracy of my many thermometers and have gotten up to 202, tho with CBL-141, not with palm wax.

BTW: If you put the wax ABOVE the water and have a tight fitting double boiler, there is a bit of pressure in the the steam area (since it cannot escape easily) and you can actually exceed 212-tho not by much.

[Stella1952]

Really? I've checked the accuracy of my many thermometers and have gotten up to 202, tho with CBL-141, not with palm wax.

Guess that depends on how much of the wax is surrounded by water and how long you "cook" it...

BTW: If you put the wax ABOVE the water and have a tight fitting double boiler, there is a bit of pressure in the the steam area (since it cannot escape easily) and you can actually exceed 212-tho not by much.

I HOPE that people are placing the wax ABOVE the water in a double boiler! As for how much pressure one can build up before steam starts escaping, I'd have to see that in action. I think we're splitting hairs here.

[CareBear]

sorry Stella, I was thinking back to my food product development days where splitting hairs was kinda important - out of context I guess.

[becky0404]

Ok, thanks. I'll take all advice into consideration. I think I'm just making it too hard for myself by transfering the melted wax into a different pot to add the scent. See, I melt a whole pour pot of wax (4 lbs) and then measure it (weigh it on a scale) into a different pot with the fo in it (yes, I minus the weight of the fo first to get an accurate 16 oz.). I have found that with this process the temp of the wax greatly diminishes if I do not heat up my pot with the fo in it first. And yes, it does take quite a while for my thermometer to reach 200. It's the last 5 degrees that takes a while.

Maybe I should just break down and buy a presto pot.

I'm going to try again today, and do it simple like JUdy suggested. maybe I'm "overthinking" this whole thing.