How much do you tolerate?

[AngelaVA]

For those of you who use a one-pour container blend (not soy), how much soot do you tolerate? Do you really get a totally clean burn with every FO in every container? Or do you have to tolerate a certain amount of soot? I am wick testing now for the square mason and column jars and it seems like there is always soot left at the end - the amount just varies. Just wondering what I should be aiming for. Thanks!

[Jcandleattic]

My goal is to always tolerate ZERO sooting, or at the very least, a very very minimal amount.. If you are getting more sooting than what can barely be seen (at the end of the final burn) on the container, I would say that you are using the wrong wick size, OR your container is too deep. I've stopped using anything deeper than a 16 oz apoth, unless the opening is porpotioninate(sp?) to the depth, otherwise I get more soot than I want.

HTH

[Terrie]

I don't tolerate any soot. It has to be soot-free for me. That is just one of my hang-ups! I tried every paraffin wax under the sun, and all of them sooted for me, even when under-wicked. That is why I switched to a soy blend.

[sharyl55]

I've thrown in the towel. Everything is Ok when the container is burned in 3 to 4 hr increments. My problem has been marathon burns and the last 1/2" of wax. I'm ready to put a disclaimer on them saying you will get some soot when doing marathon burns or if you burn the last 1/2" of wax. I've gone thru LX, CD, zinc and low smoke zinc wicks with J223 wax.

[Breanna]

I don't tolerate any soot. It has to be soot-free for me. That is just one of my hang-ups! I tried every paraffin wax under the sun, and all of them sooted for me, even when under-wicked. That is why I switched to a soy blend.

When I use to buy my own candles I would buy some soy ones and they sooted as bad as the paraffin. I was one of those that (before I knew any better) would burn a candle all day long. Now that I make my own candles I try to wick properly and so far have gotten some pretty good results with less sooting.

[AngelaVA]

I've thrown in the towel. Everything is Ok when the container is burned in 3 to 4 hr increments. My problem has been marathon burns and the last 1/2" of wax. I'm ready to put a disclaimer on them saying you will get some soot when doing marathon burns or if you burn the last 1/2" of wax. I've gone thru LX, CD, zinc and low smoke zinc wicks with J223 wax.

This is my situation as well. If I only burn for 3-4 hours and trim everytime, I can get a mostly soot free burn for most FOs. But my customers have told me flat out that they will not trim their wicks and that they marathon burn. Also, some of my Fos are sooting no matter what I do. Like JS Brown Sugar Pecan. This FO seems to be a soot factory. Every wick, every size and even wicking way down doesn't help. It smells awesome, but leaves the jar pitch black. But Harvest gives me a perfectly clean burn. I just don't know anymore. :undecided I guess I'm just frustrated this weekend.

[firstlady]

I don't want any soot, guess thats the biggest reason i'm not selling wicked candles yet. myself i do the trim on them every 4 hours or the next time i lite it up. but i know i can't count on buyers doing this. nobody has the tarts or wickless in this location, so for now i'm sticking with them to sell but keep testing for the perfect wick, wax, container combined.

[Terrie]

When I use to buy my own candles I would buy some soy ones and they sooted as bad as the paraffin. I was one of those that (before I knew any better) would burn a candle all day long. Now that I make my own candles I try to wick properly and so far have gotten some pretty good results with less sooting.

Oh, believe me, in the 2 years I've been making candles, I've tried everything you could think of to get paraffin to not soot.

Now, I don't get any soot with my soy blend. All I know is that it is exactly what I was looking for.

[lindsaycb]

But do some fragrances actually soot more than others?

if you're going to try a new scent out...and love the way it throws..do you continue to wick & jar it differently until it doesn't soot?

Have there been fragrances you didn't carry because of sooting?

[topofmurrayhill]

According to some tests that IGI did, even if you have a candle wicked optimally the cleanness of the burn will vary depending on the FO. In fact it can vary tremendously, so theoretically there could be scents you wouldn't want to carry if that were very important to you.

[sharyl55]

So far I have had the most sooting problems with any FO with cinnamon. Least trouble with gel scented with Peak's Vineyard.

[Mtngrl]

I've been getting a lot of soot w/ 6006 & HTP wicks. Soot is unacceptable 'cuz it also goes on the walls & ceiling, as well as the container. It's very unslightly & no one would appreciate a dirty candle (well, a candle that makes dirt) that they paid good money for, or even one that was given to them.

I hadn't thought of the sooting problem in relation to FOs ... good to know. I always thought it was 'just' a wicking issue.

[topofmurrayhill]

I hadn't thought of the sooting problem in relation to FOs ... good to know. I always thought it was 'just' a wicking issue.

Apparently those are the two biggest issues. IGI has some very interesting tests pertinent to this. One shows how soot varies with wick size and can go from virtually zero through the roof as wick size increases. More interestingly, they tested paraffin, veggie, and paraveggie container blends with different FOs. With each kind of wax properly wicked they were able to get negligible sooting with certain FOs but others produced a lot.

[Monica]

I've been getting a lot of soot w/ 6006 & HTP wicks.

I had this problem when I tried the same combo. I went running back to my cottons!

[shebrock]

Hi guys!

Glad I came across this post. I did a little research today and read something that floored me!

A major home party plan, that really emphasises their candles had this to say about the paraffin sooting problem.

"Highly fragranced candles will sometimes blacken the mouth of a jar. Should the jar become blackened, simply extinguish the flame, allow it to cool, and carefully wipe the rim with a dry paper towel." :rolleyes2

My take on this, is that we have been knocking ourselves out trying to produce a soot - less candle, / soot free candle when all we had to do is market the soot left on the jar as a sign of a "highly fragranced candle" I guess I've been doing it the hard way all these years! My bad!

This would really be funny if it werent for so many hard working candlemakers trying so hard to develop a quality candle, only to have a nationally recognized company to "poo poo" soot as a problem.

Just thought I'd pass along. Btw, I use the paraffin soy blends, and if not careful with this wax, they will soot too.

[prairieannie]

Hi guys!

Glad I came across this post. I did a little research today and read something that floored me!

A major home party plan, that really emphasises their candles had this to say about the paraffin sooting problem.

"Highly fragranced candles will sometimes blacken the mouth of a jar. Should the jar become blackened, simply extinguish the flame, allow it to cool, and carefully wipe the rim with a dry paper towel." :rolleyes2

My take on this, is that we have been knocking ourselves out trying to produce a soot - less candle, / soot free candle when all we had to do is market the soot left on the jar as a sign of a "highly fragranced candle" I guess I've been doing it the hard way all these years! My bad!

This would really be funny if it werent for so many hard working candlemakers trying so hard to develop a quality candle, only to have a nationally recognized company to "poo poo" soot as a problem.

Just thought I'd pass along. Btw, I use the paraffin soy blends, and if not careful with this wax, they will soot too.

Well, they're right aren't they? The truth is a huge number of candles Both OURS and THEIRS will soot, because they are not burned properly. Soy soots (may not always be black, but it soots) Paraffin soots (may be lessened with careful management, but it soots) Candles soot. You can bust your butt to do the best you can to make sure your candles don't soot, but when they do...what should someone do? Blow it out, wait for it to cool, then carefully wipe the rim of the jar with a paper towel. LOL, and we may hate it, but soot is not a life or death, make or break issue. There IS life after soot. And for the person out there who is bound to comment here and say "But soot IS a life or death issue" I say you probably ought to lighten up a little, uptight behavior is probably more of a concern to you at this point! AND for those of you who think I must be selling a sooty candle?? I do my best to sell a soot free candle, just like y'all, but I have learned to live with the fact that when improperly or carelessly burned, my candles have the potential to soot like a freakin chimney, and there's nothing I can do about it. C'est la vie!

[sharyl55]

Thanks Sheeri. Never occurred to me to solve my marathon burn problems by changing my marketing approach. LOL I love it.

[shebrock]

Prairieannie,

You are absolutely right in what you said.

I just felt that the statement this company made, hinted that a sign of a highly fragranced candle is the sooting (notice they didnt really say sooting, they said "blacking") and that it is to be expected, not due to incorrect burning etc. That possibly a person may think, well if yours doesnt soot then it must not be as fragrant as these are cause this company says so..thats all I was meaning. Kinda defeats all the work put into testing to limit or prevent sooting.

As far as how people burn our candles...I had a friend who runs a hospital gift shop who wanted my candles. GREAT! I gave her test burners to lure the people in, sold really good! I came back in to re fill, and saw the test burner:eek: !!! the soot was so bad you could hardly see thru the jar! I was mortified! I tested tested tested and none of them burned like that, then I looked in the jar! That wick had to be 2 inches long or longer (by the way it was still burning when I arrived) the wick was tilted way over. I had left her a candle burning sheet on how to burn, what to do not do etc. It embarrassed me to death to think that people came in and saw that thing burning, but people still bought them, I wouldn't have, go figure!

I guess the ones who bought the candle any way must have read that other company's statement and thought wow look at that soot, must be a good smeller!

Btw, thanks for the "life after soot", gave me a laugh! And I would certainly never think you would purposely sell a sooty candle, I have read a lot of your posts and have learned a lot from you, and am really glad you reponded to me. I really respect your work!

[Terrie]

Let me clarify what I said in my earlier post--I didn't mean to imply that soy doesn't ever soot. My point was that since I switched to a soy blend I have no soot when properly wicked. With all (and I"m talking a dozen plus) of the paraffin blends I tried, I got smoke and soot when using the appropriate wick size AND when using a wick size significantly smaller than the size called for. I'm not saying this is everyone's experience, but it is mine. I spent over a year testing paraffin blends. I gave up on trying to get a soot free burn with the paraffin blends.

I had gotten a PM or two asking questions about this, and just wanted to clarify.

[prairieannie]

Prairieannie,

You are absolutely right in what you said.

I just felt that the statement this company made, hinted that a sign of a highly fragranced candle is the sooting (notice they didnt really say sooting, they said "blacking") and that it is to be expected, not due to incorrect burning etc. That possibly a person may think, well if yours doesnt soot then it must not be as fragrant as these are cause this company says so..thats all I was meaning. Kinda defeats all the work put into testing to limit or prevent sooting.

As far as how people burn our candles...I had a friend who runs a hospital gift shop who wanted my candles. GREAT! I gave her test burners to lure the people in, sold really good! I came back in to re fill, and saw the test burner:eek: !!! the soot was so bad you could hardly see thru the jar! I was mortified! I tested tested tested and none of them burned like that, then I looked in the jar! That wick had to be 2 inches long or longer (by the way it was still burning when I arrived) the wick was tilted way over. I had left her a candle burning sheet on how to burn, what to do not do etc. It embarrassed me to death to think that people came in and saw that thing burning, but people still bought them, I wouldn't have, go figure!

I guess the ones who bought the candle any way must have read that other company's statement and thought wow look at that soot, must be a good smeller!

Btw, thanks for the "life after soot", gave me a laugh! And I would certainly never think you would purposely sell a sooty candle, I have read a lot of your posts and have learned a lot from you, and am really glad you reponded to me. I really respect your work!

No offense was taken in the least by your post..I was tickled to read it actually..it is just further proof that soot is a universal problem with candle makers no matter how unknown we are or how famous we get. It is the nature of the beast so to speak LOL...we're playing with fire, we're gonna get soot

[geekrunner]

Wow, I'm glad I read this thread. I have been playing around with soy and testing three kinds because I bought into the "soy does not soot like paraffin" meme. So far have been frustrated with getting a candle that throws scent like paraffin. I got a 10 lb slab of J50, added 1/4 tsp vybar 260 and 1 oz crisco per lb, poured in a 16 oz apoth, and was very impressed with the look and cold throw. HOWEVER, I have tried four different single wick configurations (51-32-18z, 62-44-18z, LX28, HTP 126) and they all sooted and crappy MP diameter. I am now on a 2 x C60 config, and though it soots less, it has a 3/8" MP after 2 hours, which may be too hot. Hot throw is awesome though (Peak's Home for the Holidays).

I guess though we may try for perfection, we shouldn't beat ourselves up too much, especially since we canont control how the end user burns the candle. We can only make sure we propelry advise user how to burn candle so it performs as we tested it.

I still am going to make soy work, one way or another, but will also play around with a paraffin blend just 'cause...

[MuskokaMom]

This doesn't have anything to do with sooting, but rather a similar marketing strategy. I have seen candle makers change the wording in their explaination of the Mushroom on the end of the wick. They call it a Flower which for some reason people accept more readily. Funny how powerful marketing can be. I really like the Highly fragranced candles causing high sooting. I tolerated sooting before I started to make candles, as long as they smelled great, I would just wipe the soot off. I have to say, now that I double wick my jars, I have never had a soot problem. Thank God!!

[ljbristow]

This thread has been immensely helpful and informative, but it got me to thinking. I am realtively new to making candles for sale (still largely for friends and family right now as I work out technique and process and what my niche will be, but I do have a boutique lined up and can't wait till I star celling to the public!).

But a couple of things come to mind in addition to whether the candle is produced with the right wax and/or soy blend with additives and proper wick size etc.; whoever believes that Americans actually read instructions better go back to the alter and pray for guidance..

In addition improper wick trimming and extended burn time. but how often have you gone into someone's home or seen a lighted candle display with the candles in direct sunlight, near some sort of radiating heat source, or just a plain old hot room (90 degrees+). Then to add insult to energy, how many of these candles get burned in a draft free home? Central heat/air and window AC units will create a draft sufficent to effect candle burning qualities even when clear acrossed the room (which can cause problems with both soot, muchrooming, blowouts (even when dipped with a higher melt point coating).

We do have a responsibility to produce the best and safest candles possible, but we cannot be accountable for customers ignorance when we present the proper guidelines. I also think some of the marketing descriptions regarding the blackening of container sides or buildup mushrooms are greater marketing ploys/techniques to manage customer expectations. It does excuse poor quality by any means, but does explain would could happen do variables that are sometimes beyond our control to totally resolve.

Forgive my wordiness, I just get going some times, especially when it comes to the lack of common sense exibited by our customers. We can't take ownership for that. (Kind of makes you think of the Serenity prayer!)

Josh

[lsbennis]

I have to tell you this story about a candle I just purchased. I was online and I saw these really cute funky candles from a company called Tyler Candle Company and from the way it was worded I assumed the candle was soy... (well it turns out it is only 30% soy)..anyway I orderd one to see how they wicked their 11oz Tureen..(it's double wicked)...when I looked at the bottom for burning instructions this is what it said..............

"When burning our candles the lead free wicks will develop a "Fragrance Mushroom" while more condensed fragrances will develop a silver white ash. Each must be removed before re-lighting to ensure the candle's maximum performance. This is caused by the high volume of fragrance oils which have made our candles so popular"

Sue Patrick | Gifts | Tyler Candles

[snow]

I've only been making candles since April, and I use J50 and Zinc wicks. A friend of mine said her candle wick got testicles after burning for a while. So I told her she had a boy! But she could make a female by trimming the testicles and get a better burn. It kinda' became a joke here. I've tried different combos and got more soot, but no complaints about my JJ and J50 with the Zinc wicks. But don't you find when you make a really good candle, it becomes your "baby" and you want to take good care of it. When I make one that I'm really proud of, it IS my baby! bUt I agree, if you don't burn them properly, you will get soot. So lets add to the label...PLEASE KEEP WICK TRIMMED AT ALL TIMES...and solve OUR problem. After all, our candles are perfect, now only if you customers would do your part we would have a happy little candle world! :highfive: WORKIN TOGETHER sound good? Dee