Testing S&P 487 Crystalline Container Palm Wax...

[realmarcha]

For those of you interested in the crystalline container palm wax(es), I am testing S&P's 487, which I understand is very similiar to the Glass Glo. Since there is not alot of testing information on these waxes, I thought I would start this thread and share my testing experience.

I poured 4 different fragrances: Balsam Fir, Vanilla Sandalwood, Eucalyptus Mint, and Cleopatra in 7.5 oz. frosted straight sided tumblers with a diameter of 2 5/8". I heated the 487 wax to 200* - 205*; poured into a heated pour pot; added the fragrance (10%); stirred for 1 minute, and poured into the room temperature tumblers. For now, I did not use color. After setting up overnight, I found the tumblers definately need to be heated since around 1" of the bottom of the candle did not crystalize. I did read that the tumblers should be heated, but since I have been spoiled for the last 7 years with a one pour wax, I decided to take the "lazy" way out and see what happens. Lesson learned!

I used a larger fragrance load (10%) to see if the wax could hold it without seepage, and to my surprise it did. Now, keep in mind, I live in Michigan, and the weather here is cooler than other parts of the country, so your experience with a larger fragrance load might be different.

I poured these without a wick so I can change out testing wicks. I took a shish ka bob skewer and poked a hole for the wick. This was an experience in itself. I had a heck of a time getting the skewer to push down into the wax, so next time I will use a small diameter flat head screwdriver for more leverage. When I pulled up on the skewer, the entire candle released from the jar and came out. This does not bother me, as it does others. As a matter of fact, I like when this happens so I can put a wick tab on the bottom of the wick. This allows me more testing time since the wick does not flop over into the wax when there is an inch or more wax left to test.

I wicked these with CD wicks: 2 with CD14s and 2 with CD16s. I am now on my first burn with no cure time. I purposely did not cure them to see how well the fragrance would throw without having to cure. The fragrances are wicked as follows:

Vanilla Sandalwood: CD16

Cleopatra: CD14

Eucalyptus Mint: CD14

Balsam Fir: CD16

I started my first burn at 10:45. I have placed each candle in a separate room to determine fragrance throw. Keeping my fingers crossed!

I will be pouring a couple more fragrances this evening, and will heat the tumblers, and possibly add some color.

I will keep ya' all posted on the testing results. If anyone else has experience with the palm container waxes, please feel free to jump in here and share your experience. More to come!

[becky0404]

Thank you so much for posting your testing!!! I just ordered some too, and I will be trying it out next week. I will also post my results .

[realmarcha]

Thank you so much for posting your testing!!! I just ordered some too, and I will be trying it out next week. I will also post my results .

Thanks Becky for posting. I would love to hear your results. Look below for my first burn results. Lookin' good!

[realmarcha]

First burn results (4 hour burn):

Balsam Fir with CD16: Awesome throw with 1/8" mp. This tumbler I did not put in a closed room; only have so many rooms . I had it on my dining room table; with windows open; a cathedral ceiling, and I could smell it, smell it, smell it!

Cleopatra with CD14: I would call this a good throw; very passable! It was in a closed large bedroom. Had an almost full mp with a very little hang up. I am going to let this one sit for 48 hours and see if curing it will improve the throw. Keep in mind, I like my candle STRONG, so for others this might be an awesome throw.

Vanilla Sandalwood CD16: I would call this an excellent throw; a bit below awesome. I will continue to burn this one without cure time. Had an almost full melt pool with a bit of hang up.

Eucalyptus Mint CD14: This one blew me right out of the room...AWESOME, AWESOME, AWESOME. I could probably cut back on the fragrance load with this one. Had an almost full mp with a bit of hang up.

All in all, I like this wax so far. My wick choices seem to be right on, but we will see as they burn further into the jar.

Except for the Cleopatra, I will test burn these one more time this evening...stay tuned!

[realmarcha]

Second burn (5.5 hours):

Here is the burn results on the second burn:

Vanilla Sandalwood CD16: The scent throw is excellent and so is the flame height. Had an almost full melt pool and still a bit of hang up, but doing good.

Balsam Fir CD16: The scent throw is awesome, but the flame height has gotten smaller resulting in quite a bit of wax left on the sides of the tumbler. Will increase wick size to CD18.

Eucalyptus Mint CD14: The scent throw is awesome, but the flame height has gotten smaller resulting in quite a bit of wax left of the sides of the tumbler. Will increase wick size to CD16.

Cleopatra is curing.

Did not get to pour anymore testers tonight...hopefully tomorrow.

Stay tuned...more to come!

[anabanana's candles]

who is S&P and what is their web address?

[realmarcha]

who is S&P and what is their web address?

S&P is Strahl & Pitsch. Here is their website addy: http://www.spwax.com/datasht.htm

[ChrisR]

I tested several of S & P's waxes, including the crystalline container and pillar waxes and really did like them for the exceptional scent throw, but wicking was a real bitch!! Also even being right in NY, their shipping was totally WAY too high!!

[realmarcha]

Hey Chris!

I am finding the wicking to be a real bitch! I wicked up on the the above posted fragrances, and now I have dancing flames; like they are doing the "Twist"; remember that song?! :laugh2:

I just ordered the CSN wicks and am going to try those. In the meantime, I am going to try my "old" trusty cotton and see what happens. I will post my results later.

Thanks for your input!

[realmarcha]

Well I tried the cotton wicks, and they did not work either. Large flames, and some dancing. Not as bad as the wicked up CDs, but bad enough. I am now waiting on the CSN wicks to get here. Will post those results as soon as I test. Patience all!

[becky0404]

I am also going to test with the CSN wicks. They work great in the glass glow, so I thought they would probably work in this wax too. What ones did you order to test with? I double wick my 3 1/4" container with two CSN 9's and it seems to work well.

I'll also let you know how it goes.

[Henryk]

Marsha, I've not used this wax, but if it truly is a palm wax then I have documentation from the old Astorlite site (before it was bought out) that palm waxes are extremely acidic and therefore wicks having NST treatment balances that. When I was using palm a couple years back (only in pillars though) using wicks with this really burned the best for me. So, perhaps you can try LX wicks (24 and up), or any of the RRD series - I'm pretty sure the whole RRD line has NTS. If it is palm, I'm kinda surprised S&P recommended cotton wicks - as you found, and in my tests of other palm waxes from Astorlite and Candlewic, they just didn't work for me. Anyway, if you have either of those two types lying around maybe give them a shot.

For the wicking, I've used busted metal pins from pillar wicking pins. I've put them in prior to the wax fully setting just like a wick without a tab - then you can pull them out once set instead of trying to make a hole in already hardened wax and risking it cracking.

Hope some of this helps.

[Stella1952]

I use CDNs (Stabilo KSTs) for both soy and palm wax and they do an excellent job, IMHO. They differ from CDs because of the treatment to which Henry referred.

[realmarcha]

Thanks Henry, Stella, and Becky! I will see what I can dig up in the maze of wicks I have. Still waiting on the CSN wicks to arrive!

[realmarcha]

I received my CSN wicks today, and had to try them right away. Overall, for the frist burn, they did very well. I wicked as follows for 5 hours:

Cleopatra: CSN12. The flame height was a bit large and the tumbler hot. I am going to wick down to a CSN11 tomorrow. The flame did a bit of moving around, but it did not do the "Twist"!

Vanilla Sandalwood: CSN12. This wick did very well! I will continue to test with the CSN12.

Eucalyptus Mint: CSN14: This wick did very very well! I will continue to test with the CSN14.

Balsam Fir: CSN14: The flame height was LARGE. I am wicking down to a CSN12.

So far, I like these wicks for the palm container waxes. From what I understand from CS, these wicks were manufactured specifically with the palm waxes in mind...just a bit of trivia here! I did ask CS about a test starting wick for the soy waxes using the CSN wicks, and they are still in the process of completing their soy wax tests with the CSN wicks. Stay tuned!

[bugtussle]

I think your wicks are too big. I use a (one) CSN11 for all of my 3" pillars. This is enough to burn the pillar all the way. I let the wax accumulate in a 4" round container and it will burn fine to the bottom. Palm is not like soy or paraffin, you will have hangups on the sides. Carole

[becky0404]

Bugtussle, if I'm not mistaken, she is not doing pillars. She is testing palm containers. Right?

Thank you for your test reviews...I'm going to be doing a bunch of testing next week!

[bugtussle]

Becky, there is very little difference in palm container and pillar wax. They both burn about the same & wick the same, IMHO. If you use too large a wick (wicks) the glass will get WAY too hot and could crack. I think MP rules change when you are using palm. Carole

[Stella1952]

Palm wax burns very slowly. A full melt pool on the first burn is almost assured to be the result of overwicking. I wick my 3" pillars to leave a 1/4" shell, so fundamentally, they are like burning in containers about the same size as the test containers used here ~2½" inside diameter. I use CDN 14s and 12s. I don't double-wick. Testing should be done all the way to the bottom before deciding to wick up or down, unless a wick death by drowning occurs (not a low flame - a drowning!) or the flame is so high it becomes unsafe to continue the burn... Palm has very different burning characteristics from both paraffin and soy, so give it until the bitter end if possible when you test. I agree that the container blend that I have tried isn't a whole lot different from the pillar wax. Maybe I'll try to make a pillar with it and see...

Regarding container temperature... according to this information from the Taylored Concepts site:

NOTE: THE ASTM has declared that 175º is the Maximum temperature that the Container can be when the melt pool has been achieved on your candles. Any thing above this can be a hazard. Please check your candles to comply with these standards.

Good advice!

[anabanana's candles]

DO you have any pictures to post yet. I talked to Alex Long at S&P about this, but I would like to see some pictures first.

[becky0404]

I have a few of mine made, but I don't color so you won't see the crystal effects of the wax. I also have not burned mine yet...waiting for the to cure a bit before I light them. I made them using 7% fo load, so I hope they work .