WaxFlower Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Hello everyone! I've been working with Golden Brands 416 tart wax for approx 8 months now. Overall, I'm not impressed with the looks of these tarts. The firmness is nice, HT and CT seem satisfactory for the most part but the longer this wax cures the uglier it gets. I have some tarts that have been curing for a couple of months that look like a dry, white, powdery mess, they almost look like they are disintegrating. I've heated, added fo, (no dye) and poured this wax at different temps, I've used different fo's from different suppliers and have been told to add a bit of crisco to help with the dryness and I still get the same dry, powdery results. I've contacted different suppliers that sell this wax, (even Jason at GB) and was told that they have never had this type of complaint about this wax before. Is this dryness just the nature of the beast with this wax? Has anyone else experienced similar characteristics of this wax? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! TIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Honestly, I've found the same results with several soy waxes. I just do not like soy dyed. Even if I get it to look great when I make things with it, weeks or months later it starts to frost. I don't think GB waxes are the only ones, I think it's the nature of soy. I'm going to start making all my melts/tarts out of palm wax instead, if I'm going to get frosting at least it can be pretty!! JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaxFlower Posted August 4, 2007 Author Share Posted August 4, 2007 It's too bad the nature of this beast has to be so ugly. The most important thing with tarts is scent throw. unfortunately, with pure soy, they can have a good scent throw but look ugly at the same time. Being a perfectionist, I need something that smells good and looks half way descent, I'm thinking about tossing the 416 behind me and moving on to something else. If anyone is interested in some GB416 let me know, I've got 43 pounds looking for a new home lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jami Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 I also quit using the 416 for tarts. If you let them sit for more than a month, you have powdery, ugly looking tarts. This isn't the normal frosting for soy. It's way beyond that.I have a 40 lb box going to waste. I am going to try mixing it with some granular paraffin that I got from KY Candle and see if I boost this ugly wax. It's a shame that I like the GB444 and GB415 so well to hate the 416. I did mix some of the 416 with the 444 and it helped but I still ended up with the powdery look sporadically throughout the tarts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaxFlower Posted August 4, 2007 Author Share Posted August 4, 2007 I thought I was going crazy with this wax and thought for sure I was doing something totally wrong with it. Jami, your sooo right about the frosting, it's waaayyy beyond frosting, it's like a wet tart rolled in cornstarch or something, very ugly! I guess I'll try mixing it with some other wax to take the edge off the powdery residue. I hate to waste all this 416 that I've managed to stick myself with. Back to the old drawing board. Good luck with your 416 blend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Instead of wasting it, would it work without color. Maybe make something for winter like snowflake tarts? I try to use even the wax I don't like for something. If I saw powdery snowflakes, I'd wonder what you did to achieve that look!! It's gotta be good for something? I make natural color tarts all the time with soy, some people actually prefer them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaxFlower Posted August 4, 2007 Author Share Posted August 4, 2007 Good idea KK, that just might work, I hate to see all that wax go to waste. I could make peppermint snowflakes and name them icy peppermint or something. Thanks for all the great suggestions for this wax, you have all been so helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 All straight soy is like that. 416 isn't a votive/tart blend, just a plain soy shortening that's hydrogenated to a greater extent than most of what candlemaking suppliers sell. For that reason it lends itself better to making molded products, but unless you learn to blend it you'll be stuck with all the disadvantages of using plain soy shortening for your candles. Some people find that acceptable and some don't.You could try a little of the easy additives like USA or beeswax and see if you're any happier with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaxFlower Posted August 6, 2007 Author Share Posted August 6, 2007 Top, 416 plain soy is a shortening that's hydrogenated to a greater extent, so for that reason, it makes a firmer tart with a higher mp? So basically 415 plane soy is the same only not hydrogenated to the same extent making it a softer lower mp wax? I always wondered what made 416 different from 415 even though they are both pure soy. Thanks for giving me a better understanding about this wax. Your awesome! :highfive: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Top, 416 plain soy is a shortening that's hydrogenated to a greater extent, so for that reason, it makes a firmer tart with a higher mp? So basically 415 plane soy is the same only not hydrogenated to the same extent making it a softer lower mp wax? I always wondered what made 416 different from 415 even though they are both pure soy. Thanks for giving me a better understanding about this wax. Your awesome! :highfive:That's pretty much it.Three plain soy shortenings that are hydrogenated to different degrees have been singled out to be marketed through candlemaking suppliers as "soy wax" (402, 415, 416). Some of their other candlemaking products (464, 444, 474) are these same shortenings combined with an emulsifying food additive that acts as a crystal modifier to cut down on frost.As a big food company, Golden Brands of course can produce a full range of soy shortenings, including fully hydrogenated with an MP I think around 150. The greater the degree of hydrogenation, the more solid a product you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in KY Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 I have used 415 AKA 435 now and have got this drying out for 6 yrs. It's worse depending on the time of the year the batch was harvested. I tested a few years ago with a batch that was really bad about turning and found bees wax kept it from turning for over a year, maybe longer but just didn't track it. Also clean wax worked but they quit making that. I'm trying the coconut oil now, we'll see. What's the date on your wax.BTY, no color doesn't keep them from turning it's just not as noticeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaxFlower Posted August 6, 2007 Author Share Posted August 6, 2007 Hi Sharon, I couldn't find a date on my wax. The only thing I found was, "use within 1 year of purchase", who knows when this soy was harvested. For now I won't concern myself too much with the appearance of my tarts as long as scent throw is good. Unfortunately, you can't always have the best of both worlds with this type of wax. I'll just keep working with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaxFlower Posted August 6, 2007 Author Share Posted August 6, 2007 ooops! Sorry, Wrong thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaxFlower Posted August 6, 2007 Author Share Posted August 6, 2007 That's pretty much it.Three plain soy shortenings that are hydrogenated to different degrees have been singled out to be marketed through candlemaking suppliers as "soy wax" (402, 415, 416). Some of their other candlemaking products (464, 444, 474) are these same shortenings combined with an emulsifying food additive that acts as a crystal modifier to cut down on frost.As a big food company, Golden Brands of course can produce a full range of soy shortenings, including fully hydrogenated with an MP I think around 150. The greater the degree of hydrogenation, the more solid a product you get.Thanks Top for taking the time to reply with such detailed information. It's greatly appreciated!!!:yay:Now I have a much better understanding of this wax, why it's the way it is and why it does what it does... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbeme Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I am trying my hand at tart making again after a year off. I had made tarts with GB416 and they started getting that powdery edge, now I tried making clamshell tarts and they got powdery after a week ! Now I am not sure what to do and what wax to use. I had bought soy tarts over 2 years ago, I still have some and they are still creamy looking.... there must be a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 combined with an emulsifying food additive that acts as a crystal modifier to cut down on frostTop, would this emulsifier be soy lecithin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Top, would this emulsifier be soy lecithin?I believe soy lecithin would have the crystal modifier effect but I don't know whether it's ever used in candle applications or not. People are a little mysterious about which emulsifier "USA" is and I think it's not always the same thing. Often it's a monoglyceride additive from ADM called Panalite. Soycandle.com calls their USA "Soy Lite" so I guess that's one example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breanna Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 There was a thread where people were adding coconut oil to their soy,,you may wanna try that and see if that helps with the dryness,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoOneSpecial Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I really do hate this blend of wax (416). I love the 474 though and have been trying to convince CS to switch or at least carry the 474. I understand additives can be added to this wax to make it like the 474 however that would increase the cost of the wax. That just doesn't make sense to me when I can purchase the 474 at the same price of the 416. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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