soap calc question

[Brat]

Ok, I have a recipe from a soapmaking book that I'd like to try. I have a little list lol. Anyway, I put it in soap calc to see what it came up with, and it was a bit strange compared to the summary of values listed on their site. Here's the info:

35% Palm Kernal Oil

35% Coconut Oil

30% Olive Oil

Hardness 57

Cleansing 45

Condition 35

Bubbly 45

Creamy 12

Iodine 35

INS 187

The ones in red are out of range with their summary of values:

Summary of Values:

Hardness: 36-50

Cleansing: 14-22

Condition: 45-80

Bubbly Lather: 14-33

Creamy Lather: 16-35

INS: 145-165

Can anyone tell me what these numbers mean in the sense that they're so far out of what soap calc tells me? Will it make a funky unusable soap? Is this just a ballpark figure to get your numbers to get close to? Or should it be adhered to every time? Please help!

[mystical_angel1219]

It's the high ratio of hard oils. You have 70% in this recipe. This soap would be very drying, and not suited for many skin types. Good thinking on running the recipe thru Soap Calc- it's a MUST do. I am going to go find the link where Bunny gives a tutorial on formulating a soap recipe. It's worth reading.

http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3164

Oil Properties chart:

http://www.soapnuts.com/indexoils.html

Also, check out Soo's link for soap qualities, explained:

http://www.soapcalc.com/soapqualities.asp

There are many good recipes to play with on this board, actually.

Michelle B and QuietGirl both posted excellent recipes for CP soap.

Here is another good link for soaping:

http://www.millersoap.com/

Susan Miller Cavitch - The Soapmaker's Companion is a good book. (Amazon)

But the web is an incredible tool for soapmaking, IMO. Lots of info out there.

[Brat]

Thank you!!!

[topofmurrayhill]

The proof is in the pudding, but it does seem a little heavy on the cleansing oils.

I think in terms of three different kinds of oils. Cleansing oils like coconut, palm kernel and babassu contribute mainly hardness and cleansing power. Then there's a second group of "hard oils" that includes palm oil and the various butters. These contribute both hardness and conditioning properties. Finally there are "soft oils" that contribute mainly conditioning properties. One approach to formulating a recipe is to think about the balance of those 3 types of oils to help get the kind of soap you want.

So check out what happens to the numbers if you keep the 70% hard oils but make half of it palm oil instead of a cleansing oil. The result looks promising and a lot better balanced according to the numbers.

coconut 17.5%

palm kernel 17.5%

palm 35%

olive 30%

hardness 48

cleansing 23

conditioning 47

bubbly 23

creamy 25

iodine 48

ins 161

Another thing to keep in mind if you're interested in the INS. Cleansing oils raise it the most. Palm and butters raise it to a medium extent. Soft oils raise it to varying degrees but less than the other two types.

[Brat]

I think I'm confused on which oil does what... it'll take me a bit to figure all this out. I have a book, but it doesn't say much... just how to do it with a recipe, nothing about coming up with one. Maybe I need another book huh? lol Thanks!!

[CareBear]

Brat, on soapcalc.com there is a column on the left that shows the predicted contribution of each of the oils (click on an oil name and you will see the numbers for that oil) next to the column for the recipe overall (combined).

Didn't find books much help. Millersoaps.com was a good resource, and here, and soapcalc.

[topofmurrayhill]

Here are a few of the popular oils you could try looking up in SoapCalc.

Hardness, Cleansing and Bubbly Lather

Coconut Oil

Palm Kernel Oil

Babassu Oil (luxury)

Monoi de Tahiti (luxury)

Hardness, Conditioning and Creamy Lather

Palm Oil

Lard & Tallow

Soybean Oil Hydrogenated (soy wax)

Cocoa Butter (luxury)

Mango Butter (luxury)

Shea Butter (luxury)

Soft Conditioning Oils

Olive Oil

Soybean Oil

Rice Bran Oil

Apricot Kernel Oil (luxury)

Avocado Oil (luxury)

Castor Oil (conditioning & lather)

[Brat]

Thanks Top, think that's exactly what I needed!

[topofmurrayhill]

Glad to help. I'm pretty new at this myself, but once I had the oils organized this way in my mind it was easier to devise recipes. When you're doing it "by the numbers" in SoapCalc you can vary the proportions between those different categories of oils and the numbers will change predictably for you. Also if you look at the qualities of the different oils in the calculator you'll find the common ones fall pretty neatly into the three categories.

You can also think about being in the ballpark of 50/50 between the hard and soft oils. Within the hard oils you can think about the balance between bubbly cleansing oils like coconut or palm kernel versus more creamy conditioning oils like palm oil.

There are great recipes that don't follow all the "rules" and don't necessarily look balanced in SoapCalc, but the guidelines can still be a useful starting point. At this point I only have 4 completed batches. Those recipes and the ones on the drawing board are all between 40/60 and 60/40 hard to soft oils, so I haven't really ventured into "break the rules" territory but I can design a great variety of different soaps.

As far as the recipe you posted is concerned, many people would predict that all the cleansing oils would make it drying. That might scare me off personally, but what I do sometimes is use a recipe I come across as a starting point to design something new. This one would get me thinking about designing a nice hard bar with 70/30 proportions. I'd plug it into SoapCalc and change it around until it looks like something I'd venture to make.