Ugh....Me & GB are losin' it here....

[SonShine]

Okay, so maybe it's not my GB that's going crazy but just me. lol

I'm trying so hard to get a good hot throw and it just ain't a happenin'....

I've switched waxes so many times and finally found one I like...Golden Brands. I've been reading, reading and doing more reading as well as following everyone's suggestions about pour temp, etc but it just won't throw hot for me.

What am I doing wrong? I let it cure, have tried all sorts of wicks and use the 444 with 6-9% FO. It doesn't matter what I do...it won't throw. I get my FO's from CS, Soy Candle.com as well as Peaks and Mill Creek.....sheesh!!

Suggestions for this newbie, anyone? I can't afford to lose anymore hair...can someone help me, pretty please?

Thanks for listening to me vent....

Suzy

[Meridith]

What jar and wicks are you using? Its all about the right wick and FO. Some FOs just won't work with soy. It could be that you have candle nose. Do others smell the candle? Do you let your candle cure at all? A little more information will make it easier to try to figure out what you might be able to do to improve your throw.

Jar (width)?

Wick?

what temp you add the fo?

How long for full mp?

How deep is your mp?

Room(s) you are testing in?

cure time?

additives?

[SonShine]

Thanks for the response...

Jar: 8 oz Tumbler, approximately 3" or so, wide.

Wicks: CD's, ECO's, HTP's, 700 series, almost all of them

Melt wax to 150, cool to 125 and add FO, pour at 100.

Melt pools have always been creamy, not clear, about 1/4" deep and I've burned for 3 hours, to all day long.

Cure for 1 week.

Testing in kitchen.

I've sampled different FO percentages...from 6% to 9% with the 444 wax.

No additives.

I buy these soy candles from a shop close to my town and they knock my socks off with scenting the whole house. Grrr...lol.

I'm at a loss...should I switch to a different GB wax, or just keep going. I'm sooo frustrated. Should I take the temp of the MP, or does that matter? Do you think that I might be adding FO at too high a temp?

I've always stir the FO till my wax is clear after adding it. That's how it should be done right? lol

Thanks so much for your help! =o)

Suzy

[kaytee_316]

You may need to add your fo at a higher temp. When we are using the 444, we add our Fo at 170 - 175 and pour at around 150. Someone else may have other advice, this is what works for us.

[silverm00n]

Try adding FO at 175 and pour at 130. Also you need to cure for about a week, 2 is best. ~HTH

[Meridith]

What size wicks have you been using? Hows the MP and depth with those wicks?

I agree to add your FO at a higher temp. I add mine around 170-175. When I started, I did like the directions said and added the FO at a much lower temp. Once I changed that, I noticed a difference.

I wouldn't change waxes just yet unless you feel you really don't like the 444. The 415 is a great straight soy.

[Busy Bee]

Oh thank you for think post! I am having the same exact problem with the same wax, I am using the 9oz and 16oz Melting Pot Jars from the Jar Store. Right now I am testing 3 different Size HTP wicks, a Zinc wick and a Cotton wick. I'll try adding FO at High temp. I have also come to the conclusion that low pour temp doesn't work, I still have to take a heat gun to the top of it.

Thank you!

[SonShine]

Well these suggestions are so interesting to me . The gal that gave me directions said to "just melt it to the point that it's all melted and pour at a low temp." This would be about a temp of 140-150.

Right now I'm testing Blue Berry Cobbler from CS with a premier 765 wick. Two hours into the testing and I have some hang up, the part that is melted pretty well has about a 1/4-1/2" melt pool. No scent throw at all. A medium mushroom on the wick.

If I start this process over again and go to 175-180, should I melt up to a higher temp and then add FO at 175 and pour when? I thought pouring cooler meant a smoother top??

You all have been wonderful help....I really like the appearance of this wax, so I'm hoping to figure out what direction to go and keep with this brand.

I do have some samples of the 415, 415 and 474. Maybe I should play a bit with those?

I guess I feel like I'm just working so hard, watching everything so closely and not getting anywhere. Ack!!

Oh...one more question :embarasse (I'm so sorry to annoy....) but does the melt pool temp have anything to do with the scent throw?

Thanks so much for all the replies!

Suzy

[stacien]

Suzy PM Jason with GB and tell him your situation with the 444. He has tested every wax himself and can guide you to what you may be doing wrong. GB is a great wax. I am concerned you may not be wicked up enough. You said you had a slushy melt pool and you have to shoot for a clear one. How big is your flame when you burn? If its burning but rather small your wick might be small. You could be over saturated in FO and underwicked and you can't pull too much scent that way.

To be quite honest premier wicks are not strong throwers so try the other wicks again. CD's and Eco's are great throwers usually.

Give the 415 a try you just have to pour at a slushy stage which is usally around 99-100 degrees. I love that wax.

[SonShine]

Thanks so much Stacie for the suggestion. I was thinking it wasn't burning hot enough either, due to the creamy appearance of my MP.

I'm going to try the 415 tonight...any suggestions on this one? Maybe I should add the USA to it, too?

LOL I will NOT give up....I might be losin' hair, but I love a good challenge!

Thanks again,

Suzy

[Meridith]

The ECOs, HTPs, CDs , RRDs and LXs all are reported to work well soy.

With your jar, I'd try ECO 12 or 14, HTP 1212, CD 20 or 22 or RRD 55. I don't use LX's but my guess would be the largest size or a step down from that to test. With soy, a 3 in. diameter is about as far as you can go with a single wick. Anything larger than that and you really should DW. If your wick isn't hot enough, your FO won't get hot enough to smell. Too hot, and you can burn some of your FO off.

I myself don't closely follow the rule of thumb that my MP should take as long as the width of my jar. I look more towards the depth of my MP and the temp of the jar when watching my wicking. I like my MP to be no more than 1/2" deep (1/4 -1/2).

[SonShine]

Meredith....thanks so much for the added info.

Do you take the temperature of your MP? Was just wondering...I have tried this and the highest temp I've gotten was around 110 if I'm remembering correctly. (I don't have my notes in front of me right now.:embarasse )

Thanks again,

Suzy

[Meridith]

No, I don't take the temp of my MP. I just go by the feel of the container as one way to help me determine if my wick is too large.

[stacien]

Let's put it this way suzy. If its too hot to pick up then your wick is too high. Sometimes I don't even push to a half inch to be on the safe side especially if its a thinner guaged glass I would rather it be 1/4 of an inch. Not to overstep you Meredith, I was just testing a libby jar I picked up at Michael's last week. It was the same size and width as my regular jars. The only difference was it didn't have graduated top and the glass was thinner. It was the same shape as a madison jar. I wicked it the same size and it burned a lot hotter because again it had direct air flow unlike most jars. The melt pool was too large and too hot. If I would have marathon burned it. It would have shattered from the heat. She is right those are the largest size wickes and if you used those then it is time to double up. I actually like the double wicking better even in my giant house because it throws it further.

I wouldn't even try the USA until you have tried 415 on its own. You pour it cooler but you have better control over the top. You can overdose with USA and lose throw that way. Try some of the 415 use about 1-1/2 oz per pound of FO. Peaks and MC's FO's are a sure thing throw with 415 so test with one of theirs.

[Meridith]

Stacie makes a good point that the jar itself has to be considered since it can change the wicking due to the thickness, shape of the jar and what its made of, i.e. tins get hotter so I can wick some FOs in them better than I can in my jars.

[SonShine]

I guess I'm confused about wicking and MP. I know my tarts smell up the house, yet my candles don't do anything even comparable.

I love these jars and don't really want to double wick if I don't have to.

I'll try the 415 today, without the USA, and then try the 444 again, but pouring and melting hotter.

Sometimes when I poured cooler with the 444 I'd still have to zap the tops because they looked 'weird'. lol And then again, no scent throw.

This is much more frustrating than I thought candle making would be. At first it started out as a sort of therapy for me....now it's just downright making me crazy!!

You all that have it mastered have my utmost respect!

Thank you so much for your help and suggestions,

Suzy

[tamsoycandles]

Here are some pics I took of GB waxes that I poured slushy. The wax type is written on the jar. I used the color that I have the most difficult time controlling "frost" with.

[ATTACH]10727[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]10728[/ATTACH]

The throw on the 435 was awesome. Too bad it made for an ugly candle . I'm sure I could make it better by experimenting with pour temps, etc.

I like the appearance of the 444. I need to try a few more FO to be sure that it is what I need.

And, stupid me didn't use the same FO in all three, so I don't have a direct comparison for throw.

Tony

[erinmfritz]

This is from the top of this page from Jason at GB. On here it says that the FO load is 9-11%. Maybe start there with mixing FO higher. I heat mine to 175, add y color and FO and cool to around 130 to pour. I don't have a problem with HT or CT. This wax has it's quirks, but scent throw is not one I have had with it. I've tried other waxes and came back to this one.

Good luck.

GW444: Soy Blended Container Wax

This soy wax contains a soy based additive and is both natural and kosher. This soy based additive enables the soy to be poured at a hotter temperature, helps reduce frosting, and will help increase FO load. 444 has a higher melt point which enables it to retain a higher FO load to give you a stronger scent throw.

444 blends well with paraffin, slack wax, and microcrystalline waxes. We do not recommend blending this wax with beeswax.

Pour Temp: 125-145

Melt point- 120-125

FO load: 9%-11%

[SonShine]

Tony...I like the appearance of the 444....looks very nice! =) I'll be doing a comparison tonight of all the samples I have. I had hoped to do it last night, but I ran out of gas. Geesh...I have't even gotten to the point of trying color's yet!!

Erin...I'm going with all of the suggestions you all gave me, for going up on the temperature. I'll try what you said on pouring temp. Wish me luck! lol

Thanks everyone,

Suzy

[Groovy Chic]

I agree with everyone to mix your fragrance @ 170-175 deg. Another thing I do-temper my wax. After I mix my fragrance and color, I turn off the presto pot and bring the temp of my wax down around 110-120. (I use 444 also). The wax will be very cloudy and starting to thicken. I'll then bring the wax up to 150 and pour.

[erinmfritz]

Groovy chic, So how do you clean your presto after the fo & color? I use mine just for plain wax, is re-heating the wax in your presto like tempering?

SonShine: Good luck, I poured one tonight at 125 degrees and it turned out beautiful too, just a little grainy looking on top, nothing a heat gun won't cure! LOL.

Beware with colors, the liquids tend to cause more frosting than the others I have tried. Some sites say that and some don't. I didn't realize that til I was well stocked on liquids. Although I love the ease of use with them!

[SonShine]

I was thinking the same thing about the Presto Pot. Was wondering how that works?

I usually use the Presto to heat the wax then transfer to a pouring pot to add FO. I heat the pouring pot a bit so that it won't cool the wax too fast.

Erin: Glad that your's turned out tonight...I'm just gettin' started!

Suzy

[geekrunner]

Sorry to be jumping in here so late, but alot of great comments and tips from our core group of GB wax users! I can only add what has worked for me, which is what Millcreek has recommended for 415:

Heat to 185, add FO at 175, stir well but not too hard to prevent introducing air into the wax, cool to about 110-100 or when it gets cloudy and pour.

If you use 444 or mix 415 with 2% USA, pour at about 130-135.

Good luck! geek

[SonShine]

Thanks so much Geek! I had wondered what happened to you, since I've read alot of your posts regarding GB, and you almost seemed MIA!

I was hoping to get to making these a few night ago, but it looks like tonight will be the night!

Geek....what have you found to be the best wicking for this brand of waxes?

Thanks bunches,

Suzy