starlessjade Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Okay, I really would appreciate some help here. I was wandering around the internet and found this photo of candles that are decorated with a veneer made using a millefiori technique, and I was wondering if anyone knew of any information source about doing millefiori in wax- a website, a book, personal experience- ANYTHING. I am primarily a polymer clay artist, my specialty being millefiori, and if I could adapt this technique to wax I would be happier than you could even understand, and be able to make some unbelievable candles. p.s. I'm sure I can find info on doing the candles themselves- hurricanes, right?- but it's the caning techniques that I'm interested in, particularly what kind of wax is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceCarvesWax Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Those are not canes they are solid wax candles with the coating on the outside. Machine made I would assume. I can do the same general thing by dipping layers of colored wax on a wick and twisting and pulling it like taffy then you slice it into pieces and layer them on the base candle. If a person were to try to make these by hand the time it would take to get them done would be hours and way too costly in time to think about retailing. I have one in the basement right now that I bought and there is no way you could make peace signs, stars ect and get them to look that nice by hand with wax. Plus you can buy them all over the net dirt cheap from china. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessjade Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 I'm confused now, does "cane" mean something different when you are talking about candles? I meant it as in a millefiori cane. I could easily make peace signs, stars, flowers, whatever with cold wax if it had a consistency anything close to clay, but the problem would be that the walls of the candle would need to be made of a hard, high melting point wax to prevent it from melting, and that's basically where I'm stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle Man Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Wax cools to quickly to work with it like polymer clay.You can take a straight sided glass container and cover it with polymer clay millefiori. That would be the easiest and less time consuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessjade Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 I tried messing with container wax and it was actually quite a bit softer than poly clay (cool, or at least just warmed from my hands)...but I think pillar wax would be too tough. Also, I have tried covering candleholders with clay, but unfortunately the heating and cooling of burning a candle in them made them crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugarysweet95 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I think you can buy microcrystalline soft for use in paraffin candles. It makes the wax softer, more like container wax, so you can probably mould it much better. I have found, if you get ordinary paraffin wax at just the right temp (i have no idea what it is i'm afraid) it can be quite mouldable. Me and a friend were making things out of the wax that leaked all down the pillar candle (one of my more earlier attempts - think it was an air pocket!). Anyway we made some pretty cool shapes, but you have to be quick or the wax sets and it goes all hard.So anyway you could try melting some wax and before it's all melted, try moulding it - if you melt the wax in a double boiler it's cool enough to handle when it's semi melted.There's also dip and carve wax, I think you can mould little shapes with that too when it's semi cooled.The shapes can then be "stuck" - using wax glue or melting them slightly - to the pillar and the candle then dipped in wax several times to fill the gaps.I've never tried it, but it's a candle making book i've got and i keep meaning to try it.Anyway hope all this helps!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janette Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Hi Starlessjade,I know what you are trying to come up with. I did some researching last year on this very subject. Seems to me that microcrystalline wax is what would work the best for your canes...comes in several types...you may need to blend your own. I have some Micro 5702 (numbers may be different in U.S.) that I intended to try but never did. It is semi-hard but plyable...once the cane is built it may be able to be warmed slightly if sealed in a bag and submerged in warm water, allowing you to slice it.As for the candle that you apply the millefiori to, a regular pillar may work fine, but I would go for the larger diameters ie: 4" or larger, and under wick the candle. This way the walls of the candle would remain intact and the candle would burn down the center.I hope you come up with a method...please post pictures if you succeed.HTHJanette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessjade Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Thanks a bunch Janette, I'll check out that microcrystalline wax, and will definitely post pictures if it works out at all. BTW, I love your avatar! I would definitely join the Dark Side for candy.EDIT: After a little research, microcrystalline wax sounds perfect. If anyone is actually following this crazy conversation, it is apparently added to candle wax as a hardener yet has a structure that makes it pliable. "Due to its high melt point and pliability, pure microcrystaline also makes a good sculpting wax for art projects and lost wax processes." -http://www.genwax.comNow, to figure out the best way to dye it... Wish me luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Bug Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Hi. I just happened to be reading an old candle book from our local library and they talked about this using a 50/50 papaffin/beeswax mix. There's 4 pages about how to do it and it might give you some ideas about using wax instead of clay and help even if you use the microcrystalline. It is called The Candlemaker's Companion by Betty Oppenheimer. It is outdated, but might help. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessjade Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Thanks Beth, I'll look for that book! I might owe a few people candles if I get the technique figured out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceCarvesWax Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I cut, carve, pour and hand shape wax for a living and yes you can make simple things and place them on the base candle but what I'm saying is that you cant come close to the detail you see in the candles in the pictures you posted. Not hand made out of wax, no way. The multiple colors and how small the lines and patterns are in the wax would be impossible to do with out the right (big) equipment. I have about 20 kinds of wax in the basement right now and can make about anything out of wax by hand, but the time it would take to make something as pictured would be outrageous. Here is my take on how to make something like that if I wanted to mess with it. You would have to start with a mold, say a butterfly mold that's very very tiny about a half inch wing span but very very tall like if you layered many butterflies on top of each other. Pour the mold with wax and then take that base and dip it into other colors of wax, 2 layers of one color then another so it builds up many colors inside. Once it gets to about 20-30 coats of wax it will have taken on the shape of a regular taper candle or close to it. Cut and slice it into thin pieces to be put onto a base candle. That still wont get you the detail and colors of the mass produced stuff but it will get you the same general look. I'm guessing you buy your millefiori in the shapes you want and just slice it which would be easy to do compared to wax shapes that you will have to make from scratch. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceCarvesWax Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Oh, even better, think about it this way. If you could somehow take a tiny cookie cutter in the shape you want and slice your way down threw a tall pillar candle with it you would have the base piece you need to start adding the color layers onto. Would be easier then having a mold made anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessjade Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm guessing you buy your millefiori in the shapes you want and just slice it which would be easy to do compared to wax shapes that you will have to make from scratch.I certainly would not be presumptuous enough to call myself an artist if all I did was slice up store-bought canes and stick them onto things. I make my own millefiori canes from scratch. I start with nothing but colored blocks of clay and some tools for cutting and rolling sheets, and shape and combine all of the cane components myself. The basic idea is that you build a cane of large diameter, sometimes several inches, in order to be able to create fine detail that would be impossible on a smaller scale. Then the cane is reduced through squeezing, stretching, or rolling into a much longer cane with a smaller diameter. A clay cane can be reduced almost indefinitely without losing detail, and as for a wax cane, we'll just have to see what the limits are. I doubt I'd be able to get in nearly as much detail with any wax, or do color blends (I'm trying to imagine sending a sheet of wax through a pasta machine...) but I'd like to see what it can do. Please excuse the terrible photography.EDIT: I'm talking about using cold wax just like I would clay, no dipping or anything, and it sounds like this microcrystalline wax might just be pliable enough to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceCarvesWax Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Those look real cool. How long does it take to make a stick of that?I have a hand crank pasta roller, meat slicer... about any kind of tool you can think of but I just don't think the wax will even be close to what you make with the clay. You can do about anything you want with it while its warm. I have a case of micro wax in the basement right now and there would be no way to run a piece of it threw a press or roller. Its still a very hard wax just more pliable when warm and a little less brittle when cold.Its not cheap stuff, but I'm sure the clay isn't either.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debscent Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Can't wait to see what you come up with Jade. Your existing work is very very pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsyjen Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Love the clay work! And your chinchilla is adorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candlesprite7 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 The book "The Candlemakers Companion" has a guide to Millefiori...It recommends using amix of paraffin and beeswax....Maybe get that book and check it out?Cant wait to see what you come up with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessjade Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Probably 1-2 hours for the more complex stuff. The simple little flower at the top, maybe 20 mins and I think it was at least 3 hours for the slightly mutated butterfly. The beauty of it though is that you can make the cane as large as you want (I read an article about someone who made a 20lb cane) and for most applications you only need very thin slices, so if you make a big cane it can last you forever. I made the purple rose about 3 years ago- it was originally 2 inches in diameter and 5 inches long. It's been with me through two craft fairs and countless projects.Premium polymer clay runs about $11 a pound at best (at Michael's the 2 oz blocks are $2.50 each!) and I found microcrystalline 175 for $9 a pound. It was $3.15/lb for microcrystalline 195, and I picked some of that up to experiment with blends just in case the 175 didn't hold up to burn tests.The translucent version of my clay actually has a texture very similar to wax, and I had to really fight with it to get it through a pasta machine without cracking, so I'd imagine that's what I'd be getting myself into with actual wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlessjade Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Cool, two recommendations for "The Candlemaker's Companion." I just found it on Amazon.comI seem to remember having some sort of colored wax when I was a kid that could be manipulated like clay, and I'm pretty sure it was beeswax (I have no idea if it was a blend or not, though) so the beeswax/paraffin combo definitely sounds like it might be worth looking into as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
projectalice3 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 6 hours ago, projectalice3 said: That process looks like a heck of a work out! Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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