Candle Wealth again (no, not me but a friend)

[SherriLynn]

okkkkkk.. what is MLM?? I have never heard of that acronym...

[SherriLynn]

lemme rephase that....

MLM are you talking mulit level marketing company...

orrrr is MLM a business name??

still not sure:confused:

[sudsnwicks]

SherriLynn,

MLM = multi level marketing.

Also known as network marketing.

A nice way of saying pyramid scheme.

[mbrown]

SherriLynn,

MLM = multi level marketing.

Also known as network marketing.

A nice way of saying pyramid scheme.

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: LMAO

[tamsoycandles]

SherriLynn,

MLM = multi level marketing.

Also known as network marketing.

A nice way of saying pyramid scheme.

I'll say it again, pyramid schemes are illegal and were done away with decades ago.

Here's the difference:

1. In a pyramid scheme, the top dude makes all the money. In MLM, you can make more money than people who have been distributors much longer than you have. It HAS to be this way to be legal. Those who work and help other become successful are the ones making money.

2. In a pyramid, typically you were paid to recruit. In MLM, this is absolutely illegal. The only way to make money in a Network Marketing company is to have product flow. Also, there is a required mix of retail/personal use of any product sold in a distributor's business. If I get $100 of product from the company, I have to retail a certain percentage of it. I can't just "stock up" on product.

3. In a pyramid, there was no support. MLM? You'll get more than you want sometimes.

Ok, I'm done.

Tony

[SherriLynn]

Is laffin here... well gosh.. I thought MLM was maybe another one of those Candlewealth companies... I wasn't sure... so I thought I'd better ask before I said anymore.

I'm familiar with MLM's.. For years my brother seemed to get hooked into every scam there is...and tried to recruit me personally, recruit me to buy something,, recruit me to sell other peoples something,, on and onnn... :rolleyes2 Did I ever tell about the gas additive that doubles the miles per gallon??

This was my schpeel to him. When I'm at shows I network,,, I sell multi levels too!!! I sell from products on the shelves, tables. and the floor.. 3 tiers right there, yes? ... I taught him the concept of value added,,,, create a new idea,, produce it,, market it,,, call it your own... You see, I'm the man at the top, and in an MLM you have to sell 5 times as much as I do, to make what I do. You have to sell enough to pay yourself, the guy at the top, and all the middle guys in between. So guess where he is now,,, making and marketing his own cherry wood furniture and raking in more cash than he ever dreamed in a hobby business... Sometimes, ya just gotta listen to the big sister, with the business degree.... cause if ya don't, she'll twist your arm, fix it with her nursing degree and get you on the right path.... Ok.. short brunette gets off her soapbox... LOL!!

I do have one concern though... at shows, I'm wondering how the promotors are going to tell what's handpoured from myself,,, and umm.. what's a kit... Hmmmm.... will have to tackle that in another saga...

[Hope]

I'll say it again, pyramid schemes are illegal and were done away with decades ago.

Here's the difference:

1. In a pyramid scheme, the top dude makes all the money. In MLM, you can make more money than people who have been distributors much longer than you have. It HAS to be this way to be legal. Those who work and help other become successful are the ones making money.

2. In a pyramid, typically you were paid to recruit. In MLM, this is absolutely illegal. The only way to make money in a Network Marketing company is to have product flow. Also, there is a required mix of retail/personal use of any product sold in a distributor's business. If I get $100 of product from the company, I have to retail a certain percentage of it. I can't just "stock up" on product.

3. In a pyramid, there was no support. MLM? You'll get more than you want sometimes.

From Wiki... (b/c what I'm thinking is already conveniently written )

These businesses sell sample cases of their products to newly recruited

salespersons, and will offer bonuses to members who recruit new salespersons.

(These commissions are based on the sale of products, not from an enrollment fee.)

These are similarities to pyramid schemes and may lead to the same negative

social effects, but these companies consider themselves legal businesses

because the recruited staff may receive income solely from the sale of the

products of the company, without ever recruiting new salespersons. In reality

they are strongly urged to not sell products but to recruit more people, making

them functionally equivalent to a pyramid scheme.

For myself, I try to only dish out the dough to companies that I respect. Some aspects of that can include customer service, prices, product quality, etc. The money I shell out for supplies not only encourages my candle making addiction, but helps some other business (for supplies) thrive and grow.

There are some companies I won't even bother to give a glance for supplies due to various things I'm not too keen about. My point with this somewhat long post is, I wouldn't encourage/support a business like CW with my green.

Well,... to each their own.

Happy candle making!

[sudsnwicks]

Hope, what you quoted about functionally equivalent is their way of getting around it to make it all legal. Personally, I like SherriLynn's method of multi-level selling better!

[Scented]

Oh yeah it will be ultra hard to bite that tongue when you don't want to. I dang near bit mine off in October over something similar. It's amazing. You could just anonymously send her some suckers. They don't have to taste well if you don't want them too.

[Hope]

Personally, I like SherriLynn's method of multi-level selling better!

The SherriLynn MLM method does seem like a good technique...

[soy_in_ny]

I got addicted to candlemaking because of CW. I bought the candlemaker kit and followed the directions. I, absolutely, loved it. I don't regret it, either. I do not like their business plan or their prices though. I live on the east coast and they are in CA so shipping is for the birds as well. The plan for CW will not work as there will be too much competition if everyone is making candles. So, I learned I could make candles from CW. I learned everything else from Candletech. LOL

Now, I buy supplies from reputable suppliers and test, test, test and test some more. CW is not fly-by-night but the majority of it's members will be. I'm glad Tam is comfortable with them. They really do have great FO and you don't get frosting with their wax. The candles I made with their kit were my first candles ever and they were awesome.

Just my 2 cents.

Carrie

[rascal418]

I've run into candlewealth reps at shows. Sure, they tout that their wares as homemade & I suppose they are but the reps seem to have no knowledge of ingredients except soy. They also seem to have no knowledge of business. Considering their business involves selling something with a flame I'm not sure which is more dangerous.

If they leave me alone at the shows I play nice. If they insist on getting in my face & with that line of pre-packaged put down hooey I employ self defense.

Things I've noticed with CW reps..

1. No business license or tax id > promoters often require this & you better believe the states I do business in require these posted. Remind the promoter that the tax man may be around, good idea to check sales & use licenses at every booth (read cw reps will scatter)

I guess depending on what state you're in - this may or may not apply but locally I need a business license, sales & use license + pay the tax dude every quarter & file a tax return because I sell things.

2. No insurance. noticed a cw rep with her name, address & phone on the candle. She didn't have any insurance & obviously no clue that if a customer had a problem with her product (with a flame) that the customer may end up owning her home & more.

3. Part of one CW reps pitch was that all natural doesn't dry nice, that's why her candles looked like the moon. She went on to say soy candles that look good aren't soy. I really didn't want to put anyone down but I spent the better part of the day explaining her faux pas to customers. I truly didn't appreciate her lack of experience that day.

I have no beef with mlm, m&m's or legit opportunity - but how is this legit? From what I've seen these reps are on their own - no assistance from CW in actually establishing a real business. Yeah, yeah, everyone elses product is wrong their product will save the world. Hell, they don't even know what's in their product. I might add the reps I've encountered don't recognize soy when they see it. One rep came after me like I'm doing something illegal selling soy candles that looked good lol

It burns me that folks without product knowledge are selling items with a flame. I wasn't so foolish to sell something (with a flame) without first doing my testing, research & then establishing a proper business. I predict lawsuits in that company's future. Nasty ones at that, where people are injured, homes are lost.

In your shoes, as a friend, have her read up on CW here. btw one of their reps (that tried to convert me into their natural cult) told me they offer a refund. Something to think about

[StarSpin]

I was told that the people that posted on here, which is "just a candle board" in regards to cw, "dont know what they are talking about," and it's just about "people helping people". :lipsrseal

Also wondered about the insurance. What happens if a a person sells their product to a store, bought by conusmer, consumer's house burns down...who gets sued? store, candle maker, or both? Just thought of that.

[tamsoycandles]

Things I've noticed with CW reps..

1. No business license or tax id >

That's just plain ignorance. Has nothing to do with CW.

2. No insurance. noticed a cw rep with her name, address & phone on the candle. She didn't have any insurance & obviously no clue that if a customer had a problem with her product (with a flame) that the customer may end up owning her home & more.

I bet this isn't just a CW thing.

3. Part of one CW reps pitch was that all natural doesn't dry nice,

It burns me that folks without product knowledge are selling items with a flame.

They have to do their homework. There is no "business in a can", not even MLM.

I don't fall into any of your categories. Please don't generalize.

I'm not looking to become CandleTech's "MLM boy" or CandleWealth freak, because I'm neither. If I was either one, I'd have left a long time ago.

Just don't want to see a company get completely bashed by generalizations. I've enjoyed CW products and "networking" with other reps. However, I don't see myself a true MLM guy. If I find a wax as good as CW NVSoy (IMO), then there's a good chance I'll move on.

I appreciate all of the tips and great information found here. I knew I'd have to think outside of the MLM box

Tony

[sudsnwicks]

Also wondered about the insurance. What happens if a a person sells their product to a store, bought by conusmer, consumer's house burns down...who gets sued? store, candle maker, or both? Just thought of that.

I assume the store would pass the buck to the candle maker.

[geekrunner]

Also wondered about the insurance. What happens if a a person sells their product to a store, bought by conusmer, consumer's house burns down...who gets sued? store, candle maker, or both? Just thought of that.

Who gets sued? Everyone does.

Who is ultimately responsible legally? It depends on who has the "deepest pockets." If you have insurance, the lawyers for the insurance companies fight it out.

If it can be demonstrated that the end user did not burn the candle according to the warning label, or the included directions, then maybe the end user legally bears then responsibility, then his/her homeowners insurance should cover it.

Ultimately everything comes down to a fight between insurance company lawyers. The only experience I speak from is when my home burned in 1986 and my insurance man pocketed all my premiums, leaving me uninsured, and did not have Errors and Omissions coverage on himself.

geek

[SherriLynn]

When I took out liability insurance, my agent told me, in the event of a complication causing lawsuit, anyone selling the product would be sued. That would be myself as the manufacturer, my wholesale stores, consingment stores, etc. as they are all involved. If the product proves to be defective, they would all be held accountable to some degree. And in turn, those stores could also sue me, along with the customer.

There was a lawsuit in our state a few years ago.. where the candlemaker actually went back and sued the glass manufacturer for a defective container and won. The candlemaker hired a specialist to analyze the construction of the glass.

[rascal418]

I don't fall into any of your categories. Please don't generalize. ... I'm not looking to become CandleTech's "MLM boy" or CandleWealth freak, because I'm neither. If I was either one, I'd have left a long time ago. Just don't want to see a company get completely bashed by generalizations.

Tony

Tony tony tony.... (my best soprano voice)

How is my firsthand experience with candlewealth reps generalizing? If it will make you feel better I could post about a dozen+ names of cw reps that lacked product knowledge & didn't have any qualms about bashing someone else's candles or business. I suppose that would be more specific to my experience ~ although I personally view that behavior as unkind. Sure as I'm typing this I bet others could add names to that list many times over or at least personal experiences similar to mine. In the years I've been doing shows the last 2 1/2 years have held some interesting cw moments... not.

Since you seem to know a thing or three (one of the cw reps told me they hold calls every week) I would implore you to speak on the calls & share knowledge. As a personal favor, offer a class in business etiquette. imho Under no circumstance is it professional or even cool to bash another persons work at a show I don't care what wax is being used.

Which brings me to this question (not one of the cw reps i've met could answer it) what's in their wax besides soy? Not looking to steal it - matter of fact the only reason i even bring this up is because I've worked with soy blends that contain minute amounts of paraffin & they set similar to cw candles. Just curious

[Fran]

Hello to all!!

Just signed up on this board and looking forward to sharing information. On this subject, one of the posters asked how you could say the candle is "SOY" without knowing exactly what's in it. I asked a soy distributer the same thing. He said there is absoutely know legislative body that governs truth in advertising when it comes to this wax. So we can say it's a soy candle with any of the blends and so on. The industry is banking on ethics for a truthful discription of the candles we make. All I can say, is it will come back to bite. Most of us have experience with other candles that when the opportunity comes, a customer will say---I like your candles better. There is always an opportunity to educate someone---without bashing of course.

[geekrunner]

Hello to all!!

Just signed up on this board and looking forward to sharing information. On this subject, one of the posters asked how you could say the candle is "SOY" without knowing exactly what's in it. I asked a soy distributer the same thing. He said there is absoutely know legislative body that governs truth in advertising when it comes to this wax. So we can say it's a soy candle with any of the blends and so on. The industry is banking on ethics for a truthful discription of the candles we make. All I can say, is it will come back to bite. Most of us have experience with other candles that when the opportunity comes, a customer will say---I like your candles better. There is always an opportunity to educate someone---without bashing of course.

Welcome Fran! Most noobs don't come out of the chute offering advice

While most chandlers I'm sure are honest, we are also protective of our trade secrets. Understandably so would Candle Wealth. If they have created their own proprietary soy wax blend, they rightfully should protect it. Ethically, we can tell people what we have in our soy candles without revealing everything about it, but at least we know what is in it. CW people can't even tell us what's in their wax, regardless of the percentage of each ingredient.

I think it reflects well on us here that many have seen and experienced a CW candle, and generally have liked them, but we are picking apart the business side of it that just doesn't seem kosher.

I hope you enjoy the board, maybe you can post an introduction and we can all reply!

geek

[CareBear]

Also wondered about the insurance. What happens if a a person sells their product to a store, bought by conusmer, consumer's house burns down...who gets sued? store, candle maker, or both? Just thought of that.

Everyone who touched the candle or had anything to do with it can be sued - store, maker, promoter, advertiser....

Not all will have to pay up in the end, but all can be sued.

ETA: ingredient/materials manufacturers, ingredient/materials vendors...

[tamsoycandles]

Tony tony tony.... (my best soprano voice)

Which brings me to this question (not one of the cw reps i've met could answer it) what's in their wax besides soy? Not looking to steal it - matter of fact the only reason i even bring this up is because I've worked with soy blends that contain minute amounts of paraffin & they set similar to cw candles. Just curious

Don't know. But, as anti-paraffin as CW is, i doubt it is that. It is some proprietary soy/veggie blend.

It ain't ok to bash another's product. It is ok (IMO) to tout benefits of your product over another, if you believe or can demonstrate they exist.

Tony

[rascal418]

Tony,

Just when I was starting to like your enthusiasm...

Spend the money, have the wax analyzed then proudly sell the product if it is what the company claims. It concerns me that cw doesn't proudly list the waxes. I wasn't messing with you when I stated cw candles set similar to candle I used to make with a soy/paraffin blend. btw I've seen cw reps encouraging people to put their hands into melted wax. Not knowing what's in the wax this could be a huge lawsuit - esp where allergies, unknown wax, fo, eo are concerned.

You're the first buyer contact, your name's on the product so you'll be the one the buyer goes after first. I haven't read cw policies & procedures but I bet they leave the rep hanging.

Tony, I hope you don't think I'm picking on you or cw. I would have the same problem with any company or vendor selling something as natural if they don't know what's in there. My biggest beef with cw reps (i've personally encountered & seen in action) is the in your face way they take on other candlemakers & put their products down. ie How can you compare an unknown ingredient candle to known ingredient candle?

My gut feeling tells me y'all are going on mlm belief, faith & trust. Belief, faith & trust are good things when it comes to religion but when it comes to business I'm not so naive to toss my name on a product if I don't know what's in it. I sure as heck wouldn't risk libel, slander or a business suing me if I put their products down blindly.