Dahlia Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I thought it would be nice if I knew in case someone would ask-lol! I might even make a write up for my website and to put on the sale tables. Can anyone give me a not too complicated explanation or a link to a good website? I've looked but can't seem to find anything. TIA!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Interesting to note that the beans come from plants that are genetically modified so they don't die when the fields are sprayed with herbicide to kill the weeds.The soybeans are cracked, heated and flattened by rollers. The flakes are then drenched in hexane (a petroleum solvent and gasoline ingredient), which dissolves and extracts the soy oil. The hexane is removed from the oil, which is then refined by various means to produce a purified, bleached and deodorized product.To create soy wax, the oil is "hydrogenated" to convert it into a solid product. This is done by bubbling hydrogen through it under special conditions in the presence of a metal that helps the chemical reactions along. The result is solid vegetable shortening, which can be produced at various melt points.Even though it's not considered very good for you because of the "trans-fats" and such, the main use for the shortening is baking. At the appropriate melt point it can also be used to make candles. That's one kind of "straight soy" wax. You can also create a "soy blend" vegetable wax by combining the shortening with other botanical ingredients such as oils, stearic acid and certain food additives. That can help in producing candles that look better when they're made.Vegetable shortening is also used as a blending ingredient with petroleum derived products to produce "parasoy" candle blends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystical_angel1219 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I couldn't have composed a better answer myself. Great explanation, Top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I couldn't have composed a better answer myself. Great explanation, Top. Thank you dear. Shall we talk about the manufacture of sausages next? Or do we not really want to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairieannie Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Wow.. I'd certainly think twice before marketing that stuff as all natural hehehee! Bravo for the explanation Top! 'twas PERFECT! Oh, and on the sausage thing.. if they don't already know, I'm pretty sure they don't wanna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geekrunner Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Forget about all that. I just wanna know where babies come from geek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveOfTarts Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 So soy candles can't be promoted as an natural product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryGal Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 LMAO Geek!!! Great job Top! I've often wondered about that myself....now as for sausage....we make our own and I know far more about it than I ever wanted to, but enough to know that if we didn't make it, I'm not eating it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crafty1_AJ Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 So soy candles can't be promoted as an natural product?I guess it depends on how you define "natural." If you define it roughly as "existing in nature, without modification by humans," or, "composed of ingredients existing in nature," then soy candles aren't really natural. Because by that definition, hydrogenated soy oil isn't natural. But then again, neither are fragrance oils. hthEdited to clarify. Fuzzy brain waves today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahlia Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 Thanks for the reply, and dear god no I don't want to know how ANY food is made! I'd prob starve to death-lol! I used to work in a pasta factory when I was a teenager and it took me yrs. to be able to eat past again! Not very sanitary! Luckily I don't plan on eating my candles-lol! Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candlebug Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 When you add a fragrance oil (a synthetic chemical compound) I would be hesitant to call this a "natural candle". But that is me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsbennis Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 ....this is taken directly form the NGI site about Ecosoya Wax...perhaps this is why it seems to be a little more expenisve then other brands...who knows. But if I'm reading this correctly it would appear that they do not use GMO products."Every ingredient has met with the approval of the United States Food and Drug Administration and Kosher Certification criteria. EcoSoya™ soy waxes are FREE from pesticides, herbicides and Genetically Modified Material." Edited for spelling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsbennis Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 When you add a fragrance oil (a synthetic chemical compound) I would be hesitant to call this a "natural candle". But that is me I agree with you Candlebug...once adding fo and fragrance you really do not have a natural product since they are synthetic and to state it as such can be misleading...I do however know that there are very eco-friendly FO's and Colors which do cut down on some of the chemical ingredients which can make your candle a little more environmentally friendly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scntdwik Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Wow.. I'd certainly think twice before marketing that stuff as all natural hehehee! These were my thoughts exactly! How can they market this as "All Natural"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsbennis Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Wow.. I'd certainly think twice before marketing that stuff as all natural hehehee! These were my thoughts exactly! How can they market this as "All Natural"?Well I have seen it all...if you think calling them natural is crazy scroll down to the middle of this site and read all about MACC "Organic Soy Candles"SOY CANDLES : WHOLESALE Soy Candles : CUSTOM PRIVATE LABEL Soy CandlesIt sounds like they have taken the wording from the NGI site but even NGI does not state their wax as "Organic" :rolleyes2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I'm sure it's true that EcoSoya waxes contain no pesticides and herbicides. Probably none of them do. Rest assured those pesticides and herbicides that don't break down quickly are safely seeping into the environment and filtering through the food chain. At least they aren't in the candles. Seems to me we get into discussions about how people market their veggie candles because so much of the terminology is either meaningless, vague or used purely subjectively and without regulation, so you can say just about anything you want. It becomes more about perceptions and feelings than about reality. How about a few examples?I think "natural" means it exists in nature. If we want to keep it clear and simple, all we can say is that soy oil and paraffin are indisputably natural. Hydrogenated soy oil doesn't occur in nature and neither do some of the compounds it contains. Is it natural because the raw materials are soy oil and hydrogen, subjected to a catalyzed chemical reaction? The only ingredients in Fischer-Tropsch wax are carbon monoxide and hydrogen, subjected to a catalyzed chemical reaction. The raw materials are abundant in nature, but the product is universally called synthetic wax.The definition of "organic" that most people are alluding to really refers to foods that adhere to the guidelines of a regulatory agency. There's no strict definition beyond the law, which doesn't apply, so people make up their own meaning and there's nothing to stop them. Never mind that even the vegetable shortening in the wax can never be organic because it's a hydrogenated food product. Doesn't matter what you use to make it.What exactly is stabilized soy wax? It's whatever you want it to be. Beanpod has a meaning in mind when they say it, but there's no official definition. Nothing is stopping anyone from calling their soy wax "stabilized" for any reason or no reason. Heck, if you use a 70/30 parasoy blend, you probably have the most "stabilized" soy wax of all.Maybe oddly, my biggest beef is the term "soy" itself, when used to describe the content of a candle or a wax. There's no substance called soy. That terminology is about glamour and mystique and trendiness, to make an artificial distinction between a candle ingredient and a bottle of salad oil or Crisco. In reality there's no distinction. Your candle isn't made of "soy" unless you hand someone a jar of soybeans with a wick in it.I'm interested in candles and wax ingredients of all kinds, but the level of BS on the veggie side bugs me. It isn't just the obvious cases, but the fact that it seems to permeate everything.Pardon the rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsbennis Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I agree with you Top....most likely there is still residual pesticides and Herbacides in the soil...AKA...Bio-Magnification. There is an excellent book written on this quite some time back by Racahel Carson called "Silent Spring" I also have the same peeve with personal care and cosmetics labeled "Natural and or Organic" when clearly you read the ingredients label and it is anything but. Anyway what would you call a soy candle instead of soy? :undecided Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mystical_angel1219 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Well I have seen it all...if you think calling them natural is crazy scroll down to the middle of this site and read all about MACC "Organic Soy Candles"SOY CANDLES : WHOLESALE Soy Candles : CUSTOM PRIVATE LABEL Soy CandlesIt sounds like they have taken the wording from the NGI site but even NGI does not state their wax as "Organic" :rolleyes2Wow.I checked the site. They obviously use many MC products, the ingredient list for the bases is identical to the MC site. Not one B&B product is actually formulated by this company, I presume. The one thing that makes me crazier than a bed bug is when candle and B&B scents mirror each other on a crafters site. The scent description page is verbatim of the MC one.Way too much soy joy, bunny foo foo for me.Not to mention "drenched in natural fragrance oil"? - that's when I hit the X. I am a soy wax chandler, and have experience with many types of wax including paraffin.It doesn't mean soy is superior by any means. It is preference. Nothing more, nothing less- IMO.I think they might be mistaking "Kosher" for "Organic". I also believe that websites that mislead a consumer should be regulated to the fullest when it comes to claims on soy wax. It not only instigates controversy- it's all a crock of shit. A candle is a candle- plain and simple. It burns- therefore it introduces toxins in the air. End of story.Edited to add::Holy smokes- they have some serious wholesale going on.I'll give them credit, that list is pretty long and diverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlewitch Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 About those bedbugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowded House Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Wow.I checked the site. They obviously use many MC products, the ingredient list for the bases is identical to the MC site. Not one B&B product is actually formulated by this company, I presume. It's pretty easy to spot when they don't bother to clean up the spelling errors for the ingredients listed on the MC site. I think they might be mistaking "Kosher" for "Organic". I bought a box of 415 from MC way back and it does indeed have "Kosher" printed on the side of the case. It made me wonder about the Jewish soy candle market. Anyone know about that?I prefer to call soy candles "an agriculturally-based, water soluble product in an easily recyclable glass container". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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