Pillar discolorations

[candlehubby]

Hi everyone.

My wife poured some pillars, on different occations. She poured 3"x3" and 3"x6" pillars. On each pour she used IGI 4625 pillar wax. After about a week the discolorations occured. When they came out of the molds they looked great. For additives she only used 1/4 oz. per lb. of UV inhibitor. She poured the first batch at 180 deg. Then she tried cooler at 160 deg. Pouring cooler helped alittle but not much. For FO she used 1 oz of candle science's french vanilla, and the second time 1 oz of thier baked apple. Any idea whats up. Thanks for the help. I don't know which picture is which but you'll get the idea. Thanks again.

[Scented]

Well I'm wondering if that was the two-part UV from Candlewic, because you need both part A and B for it to work.

Also wondering what kind of light exposure and UV doesn't prohibit color fading or changing, it's just supposed to slow it down.

Don't know whose UV you've got, but I use 1/2 t per pound of wax and Peak's UV and haven't had that kind of dramatic shift in a candle since.

In addition, that isn't a color change going on in the candles. They didn't show the first time I posted. That's fingernailing. It's air pockets causing fractures in the wax.

So here are additional questions: Why pour cooler after pouring hotter? At least do the repour the same if not a little hotter than the initial pour. Better adhesion of the wax and the cooling rate isn't likely to trap air inside.

In addition, did she poke relief holes?

You can research fingernailing on here and run into all kinds of information.

[candlehubby]

The UV that she says she ordered was from Candlescience. I don't know if there is a 2 part or not. I was thinking the same thing too about the light. The second group of candles that she poured were kept in the dark. But same result, so she/we ruled out the UV.

I work in the automotive design industry. I design alot of plastic injection molded parts. Plastic shrinks too. I noticed that she had alot of shrinkage around the center of the first group. Her repours are always hotter. So I recommended pouring the second group of candles at a cooler temp hoping that the wax wouldn't shrink as much. I was thinking what I was seeing was stress cracks. But apparently not. She did poke cooling holes but only once. Should she do it more often?

I hope this clarifies things alittle. She poured 2 sets of candles. One at around 180 and the second at around 160. Repours were about 10 degrees hotter than the inital pour.

Great info. Thanks.

[Candle Man]

About the color...

If you thought you were going to get a white candle you wont with French Vanilla, the FO is to dark in color. You will get an off white / beige color.

Fading of color will not occur that soon, it may take 6 months or longer if that color or FO has a tendency to fade. Florescence lights or sunlight cause fading with the latter causing it faster.

[Everito Bandito]

That second pic looks like fingernailing. I used some IGI 4625 several months ago and got something that looks either the same or very similar. I tried pouring it several times at different temps and still got the marks.

I think it's air bubbles of some sort because I stuck a very sharp pointed knife into them and they went away when the knife point reached the discolored spots.

I have some CBL 141 that comes out brainy/wavey/rippled looking on top when it sets up, but other than that I like the wax. Maybe that batch has too much vybar in it. Whatever the case, I started mixing the 4625 into that wax and ended up with nice looking pillars. I suppose that by mixing the two, each one covered the problems that I was having with the other. :smiley2:

Here's a pic of the 4625 fingernailing with lilac scent, colored purple. If you do a search on *fingernailing* you will find more threads about it.

[candlehubby]

Your candle looks exactly like what she was getting. I'll have her try making relief holes more often and see if that works. Does your fingernailing develop over a couple of days?

Candleman, the colors of the candles came out exactly as she had hoped. The french vanilla was ivory, and the apple was a cider color. You can see from Everito's pics exactly the discolorations. We didn't know there was a term for it.

Thanks for the help.

[Scented]

OK I misunderstood about the repouring, thinking it was repouring cooler into hot.

There are only theories out there about the fingernailing and what causes it, but trapped air does it.

Yes, on the relief holes, poke and keep them open till it's time for the repour. That will help. Yes, Everito's purple candle has the stages of fingernailing. Yes, they will occur either right away, multiply like bunnies sometimes and can show up even days after pouring.

That's a preblend wax you're using, right? You could slip in a couple extra grains of vybar and see if that helps any. I have not found that holding the wax at a high temperature for 20 minutes works all that well. For me, I just kept adding a few grains (2-4) and remaking. I've found they tend to show up more when it's humid too.

[candlescience]

Hello Everyone,

I am sorry you are having trouble with the 4625 candlehubby.

The problem that I see with your pillars is quite common with 4625. Like some other members have stated it is an internal fracture. The fractures commonly show up a few days after you pour, and are usually caused by either too much FO, or accelerating the cool of the candle. They are created when crystals of wax are not able to bind correctly and separate.

Here are a couple of things to try.

1. Make sure you weigh the fragrance oil, volume is not accurate with many oils due to differences in density. Also we commonly overfill our 1oz bottles, so if you just add the whole thing it is often more than 6%.

2. Do not to accelerate the cooling of the candle at all. If you are pouring in a very cool room you may even want to slow the cooling process by placing a cardboard box upside down over the molds.

You are definitely correct that lowering the pour temp of the wax will reduce shrinkage, but with this wax you will not get the same smooth surface. We recommend re-pouring a little hotter so that the new layer can melt and bond with rest of the candle, if you lower that temp is is tough to get the layers to stick.

HTH!

Also, please feel free to give us a call anytime you are having trouble with a CandleScience Product.

Thanks,

Mike Swimm

CandleScience

http://www.candlescience.com

tel: 888-266-3916

[Everito Bandito]

Your candle looks exactly like what she was getting. I'll have her try making relief holes more often and see if that works. Does your fingernailing develop over a couple of days?

Candleman, the colors of the candles came out exactly as she had hoped. The french vanilla was ivory, and the apple was a cider color. You can see from Everito's pics exactly the discolorations. We didn't know there was a term for it.

Thanks for the help.

Yes, the defects showed up after a day or two. I was only using about 5% FO and was not doing any accelerated cooling, whatsoever. My wax also came from the same supplier (who I consider to be good folks). I only bought 10lbs. of it. I tried pouring at 175, 165 and 155 with and without UA and still got the fractures.

Then, I decided that I'd just mix it with another wax, just to get rid of it. I figure that maybe it could just be a funky batch of wax or something. I have a little bit left and may try adding a pinch of vybar 103 to see if that makes a difference. It was also very humid when I was pouring those candles. Either in late june or early july.

I switched to using 1343 from the same supplier and like using it. I add my own additives according to what I want to make with it and haven't had any fingernailing.

[PamR]

Just a suggestion. Make sure when you heat your wax, get it up to at least 200, then cool to your pouring temp. I've not had this with this wax, but have noticed it with others. A sales rep told me ideally to keep the wax at 200 for 30 minutes to eliminate any air in the wax. I don't have time to do that, lol. But I always heat my wax to 200, then let it cool to pouring temp. An small amount of vybar seemed to help to, even tho I know that wax shouldn't need it. Hope this helps

Pam R

[candlehubby]

Thanks for all the great replies and advice. I'll pass them all along to my wife. Its also great to see a supplier jump in and help especially the one you purchased the products from. Thats great customer service and also ensures return business. Thanks again.