FO, Dye & C3 not aging well

[candleguy]

Does Cargill C3 have a shelf life? I have a 7 month old test batch in votive glass that have completely discolored. At first I thought it was just the dyed candles but found out that it also affects the no-dye batches as well. It seems to only happen after 4-6 months of being stored in closed storage containers in a dark, cool room. They still burn OK and give good to excellent cold & hot throws but cosmetically look gross. I'm pretty sure I'm going to drop the dyes for now but even with the natural color it still has the halo effect. Is that unacceptable to the soy candle consumer?

I used both liquid dye from Lonestar and solid dye blocks from At Wix End.

FO's were mostly from Daystar though it's happened with Lonestar FO too.

Easier to show pictures than to describe the look so here's some photos.

Pink Sugar, Kitchen Spice, Wood Coffee, Nut type and Cut Grass pictured.

[topofmurrayhill]

Unfortunately shelf life is considered to be how long the wax stays good, not how long it stays pretty. The parts that go through the greatest temperature cycling are liable to frost -- top and bottom edges in particular. It's just a soy thing.

The soy specialists say their customers don't care. That may be true but it's not the product I want to sell, personally.

[mystical_angel1219]

Give them a good blast with the heatgun- they will come back to life, but I will tell you they won't stay pretty for longer than a month or two. I personally would toss them in a 150' F oven and cool them slowly and burn for my own use. Because we can't have ugly candles laying around... can we? LOL!!

I don't believe soy has a shelf life. But I think 415 should be used as a raw material, if that. This soy is brutal, and prone to many, many variables. Did I say many? It needs to be stabilized to be a good performer in my experiences with it.

Soy specialists do care about what their product looks like and so do their customers. That statement is utter bullshit. Even if the customer doesn't know what inferior soy candles look like- I will do my best to educate them. Educated consumers are your best customers. Plus, they usually have better paying jobs and can easily afford any candle they want. These are the type of customers you want, trust me.

Sink holes, wet spots, frosting and tunneling are not just "soy" characteristics. They can be found in poorly designed paraffin applications as well. Candlemaking can be equated with cooking in a sense. A cookie made with butter tastes much better than a cookie made with margarine or Crisco. The better ingredients you use for your own candlemaking, the better your product will be. It's not always the method, but the raw components used in your process.

[topofmurrayhill]

Soy specialists do care about what their product looks like and so do their customers. That statement is utter bullshit. Even if the customer doesn't know what inferior soy candles look like- I will do my best to educate them.

I know that you care, but this forum is crammed with statements from candlemakers who think otherwise and have taught their customers to associate the aesthetic imperfections with the benefits of soy wax. Look and you will see countless claims that the customers don't care. So unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be bullshit. I think you're in the minority with your aesthetic standards.

The looks of your candles are about you, not about soy. And I don't think you're about to tell anyone what additives to use.

[mystical_angel1219]

Yes dear.... LMAO!!

If I gave anyone my proprietary formula, I might have to kill them.

Perhaps I haven't run across many of these claims within the forum.

I would hope that anyone selling candles would not be broadcasting that frosting and lumpy tops are any reason soy is beneficial. I am one of those soy people that detests the "Soy Train"- it's misleading as hell.

I think one should proceed with caution when stating benefits of any kind because a candle is made of soy.

It's just market hype- and I would buy a paraffin candle as well if I liked the scent.

The process in manufacturing soy uses dangerous solvents. The only thing besides easy clean up that I would say was more beneficial than paraffin is that most soy is made in the USA. (for now)

Anything that burns will throw out chemicals of some sort in the process. Soy does soot as well, not as much can be seen because it's a white soot most of the time.

Of course, we don't want to start a riot on the soy vs. paraffin issue. (wink)

Candleguy- back to your dilemma.

What temperature did you have these candles stored in and how was the humidity?

These two factors can greatly dimish the life of your colors and texture in a short time with 415.

[Candle Man]

Parasoy blends stay looking better longer when kept at room temp.

I got the same results as you, no more 100% soy for me.

[Candlewitch]

If a candle sat for 6 monthes then well. It is a ornament. I have had some candles with c-3 that are 9 monthes and this did not happen. I assume that a temp change did that to your candles. Tumblers with thick bottoms do not cool down evenly thus will cause that, but the top frosting is something i use to see with c-1 wax. There may be things you can add to prevent this also.

[topofmurrayhill]

With 100% shortening you have the advantage of having them come out screwed up right away, hence no illusions. Some of the blends can come out really nice off the bat, but easily deteriorate in storage. Most vegetable derived stabilizers just aren't that effective.

A few months ago I made a bunch of CB-135 tins as scent testers. Lacking space, I had to stick them somewhere in the path of cross ventilation and you can see an effect comparable to the C-3. They frost where the wax gets the most extreme temperature cycling, notably the top edge. All the samplers were smooth and frost-free when first made. They were dyed with Pryme.

[Candlewitch]

That looked like a couple beanpod tins i had a couple years ago.

[candleguy]

Candleguy- back to your dilemma.

What temperature did you have these candles stored in and how was the humidity?

These two factors can greatly dimish the life of your colors and texture in a short time with 415.

A/C keeps the room where they were stored between 74 & 78. Humidity not so high, a bit on the dry side.

Thanks for all of your responses. I've decided to drop the dye for now and just go with the natural C-3 wax color. Although.. one of my testers said she thought the frosting was cool and thought I did it on purpose.

A side thought..would storing them in cellophane bags be a factor?

[Candlewitch]

I forgot to mention, your candles have no tops, having a lid on the top helps greatly with soy, i have some tumblers in the store that are about 2 monthes or more, i will see how they look... But the jars with lids, i have no problems. Find a jar glass where it is the same thickness on the sides as it is on the bottom.

[KFTS]

I had this problem with straight C3 a lot. Mixing with paraffin it is not so bad. At 75/25 or 80/20 (soy/paraffin) most but not all will blend without that mottling. I really wanted to go straight soy starting out but the cosmetics of it turned me off.

[stacien]

I agree with Top. Temperature variances do make a difference. Plus we tend to forget it is technically a food product. Hydrogenated oils are made to prolong shelf life but not guarantee. I store my candles in the basement with lids and they still change if the temperature reaches cooler temps. Tealights have to be air tight otherwise they whiten and loose their luster. I know we as candle makers know they still are good but to the average consumer they look like good candles gone bad.