candleslh Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I had a customer ask me if I made organic or natural products. I did a search on the internet to see what the ingredients were in these soaps. I couldn't find where they listed the lye in the ingredients. They only list the oils & butters. Is this legal? I would think they would have to list the lye. Is lye concidered natural? I would think it was a chemical. Can you make soap without lye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle110 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I was under the belief that with CP they DO NOT even have to list the ingredients, only with M&PMichelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindym Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Organic or not if you don't have lye you don't have soap. Once your soap is saponified there is not lye left anyway. When they say organic I think they are talking about organic ingredient's unrefined oils, etc. no animal fats, eo's instead of fo's. Hope this all makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I had a customer once call my soaps organic. I quickly corrected her because I feel that I can't call them organic since I don't know how the oils and butters that I put in my soaps are processed. I could be wrong and it could be O.K. to call your soaps organic, but under those circumstances, I don't feel its right for me. Also, even though lye is no longer present in the finished product, it is still used in the process and I certainly don't think of lye as being in any way organic. I explain that I don't add any chemicals or detergents to my soap and then show them my lables so they can read for themselves what my ingredients are. I do add my ingredients to my lables so that those that have allergies or are just very lable conscience can see what I put in my soaps. Once they see that it is just butters and oils and they recognize most of them, they are O.K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondk Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Meredith, In the ingredient area we don't have to put the lye solution on the labels? I am getting confused again. TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinInOR Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I usually say "as natural as a soap can be" There is a naturally occuring "lye", but it's actually potassium hydroxide. You can find it in a burned forest after a rain. No, you cannot make soap without lye. Unless you pick a lot of soapwort bushes and try to do something with them As far as labeling for CP, there are 3 ways to do it. Not at all, since soap can be excluded from labeling laws. Labeling what went *in* to the soap. Labeling what's in the soap *after* the chemical reactions are done.Most label what went into the soap. Since we don't have the research facilities to determine exactly what's left in our soap in what proportions. Pity the Canadians who have a new law that states they have to label according to what's left in their soap - most now have to guess and have a label a mile long I wouldn't call my soap organic - I find customer won't really pay the price for me to buy organic oils, though they are out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Meredith, In the ingredient area we don't have to put the lye solution on the labels? I am getting confused again. TIAI'm one of those that lables what's in the soap after the chemical process is done. I've had people ask me if I use lye and, of course I tell them I do and that soap is always made with lye. I'm not embarrasses or ashamed by that fact. But, I never thought about soapwort. I just learned something new. :smiley2: I use unrefined products in alot of my applications but even if it was all unrefined, I still wouldn't feel right, nor do I think its necessary to lable soap "organic." I think hand made soap, all by itself is far superior to any commerically produced soap, organic or not. JMO Even before I started making soap 8 months ago, I always bought handmade soaps and never once did I wonder or care if it was organic. Just my thoughts. :smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candleslh Posted August 14, 2005 Author Share Posted August 14, 2005 But, I never thought about soapwort. I just learned something new. :smiley2: I had never even heard of soapwort. I learned something new too! I just couldn't understand how you could make soap without the lye. Thanks all for jumping in here and explaining that. It all makes sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinInOR Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I bought soapwort seeds this year from Nichols Garden, but they didn't grow well, they fried in this heat. They need to be chilled before they germinate. I didn't take care of them - maybe next year. Here's the description on the seed packet:Saponaria officinalis. Perennial, 30". entire herb can be simmered to produce shampoos, skin rinses and soaps for fine fabrics. Upright growth habit, but tends to send runners out from main plant. Plant in area where it can sprawl or grow in a container. Pink flowers in spring.Thought it would be neat to have a soap called Saponaria, maybe dry some leaves for a scrubbie, do a pink swirl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Natural truly doesn't seem to mean to much by FDA information.FDA bylaws on Natural/Pure etc....However,organtic etc..(internal) use is explained more I beleave..Lye is Lye. However,in soap it is not!!! Why???Because you have altered its state into something other then lye..., Lye is a toxin/acid and a health hazad if inhaled...or touched ...In soap it is no longer lye.Wish I could explain better...Dyslexia overdrive today...Kind Regards,linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melly Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Pity the Canadians who have a new law that states they have to label according to what's left in their soap - most now have to guess and have a label a mile long Wonderful! thanks for the heads up, make that two miles long, we have to probably put it down in french too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elle110 Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 I have had some customers ask me if I use organicly grown products in my soap, some people do want to know this and it is very important to them. Only people who purchase their ingredients that are specifically organically grown usually put organic soap on their labels, and since the lye is gone it would not be usually listed. Most consumers who buy natural soaps, I have found, have a basic understanding of the process of making soap so they are not necessarily concerned about the lye used in the soap but if they want organic they want to know if the plants/herbs/butters etc were grown that way. Some suppliers sell organic butters, oils etc just for that reason. I don't think people who put that on their lables are being deceptive if that is what they are usingI feel like a just ran in a circle LOL but anyway that is my 2 cents worthMichelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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