soylights Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 We have been soy users for years. I am new to blends. I decided to start with 444 and 4627 but struggling with wicking. I thought since I was adding paraffin, I would either wick down or wicking would stay the same but the blend is tunneling in every scent I've tested. I know the easy fix is wick up and we will do that but I'm wondering if anyone could help me understand why this is happening as the melt point should be lower. Pictured left is bluberry 25/75 blend and on the right 464 both with premier 770. Soy burns perfectly. TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylights Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 To add: I tested the same with CD's and it tunneled with at those as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 444 is very prone to hidden cavities around the wick. If the hole formed like that rather soon after lighting I suspect that is the case here. We gave up on 444 because even in small amounts within a blend the cavities were everywhere no matter what else we did to prevent them. If not a cavity you may have received a bad lot of 444. Starting late 2016 things went horribly wrong for GB when they moved manufacturing operations to Central America. I received a couple of lots that were completely unburnable. No matter what wick, the flame snuffed out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylights Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 Oh no! The same thing happened with wicking 464/4627. We didn't have any noticeable sink holes but major tunneling. I think your correct with the cavities forming. Thank you for replying 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, soylights said: Oh no! The same thing happened with wicking 464/4627. We didn't have any noticeable sink holes but major tunneling. I think your correct with the cavities forming. Thank you for replying 🙂 Easiest way to tell is to take a long thin skewer and poke down around the wick. You will feel when you hit one. either try to heat gun to fill or do a second pour. You will find many soy are prone to cavities. It is the nature of the wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylights Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 Thank You for the recommendations. We never have trouble with 464 or 444 by themselves, just when blending. I am hoping the wick up helps, but scientifically it doesn't make sense that I would need to wick up from adding paraffin, seems it should be the opposite so I'm stumped in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRez Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Similar issue here with blending 415/4627. Blended 70/30. I was thinking wicking down as well but actually had to go up. Go figure. I also blended 50/50 but haven't tried that out yet. Both blends have been cured over a month. No sink holes as of yet with the ones I tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylights Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 10 hours ago, SRez said: Similar issue here with blending 415/4627. Blended 70/30. I was thinking wicking down as well but actually had to go up. Go figure. I also blended 50/50 but haven't tried that out yet. Both blends have been cured over a month. No sink holes as of yet with the ones I tested. Interesting. Let us know how your burn test go. Did you purposefully cure for one month? Patience you have lol. I should get my larger wicks in the mail this week and will update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRez Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 2 hours ago, soylights said: Interesting. Let us know how your burn test go. Did you purposefully cure for one month? Patience you have lol. I should get my larger wicks in the mail this week and will update. Will do. I've been primarily focusing on 464, but in the beginning of this journey (back in August) I went a little overzealous and purchased other waxes as well. 415, 444, 6006 and 4627. You know, one of the first things they tell you not to do.... Pick one wax and learn it. Listen I did not. I have some success with 6006 but decided to slow down and tackle 464 first... Seeing how I have 4 cases of it... Did I mention that I went a little overzealous? Bakery scents so far work great in 464 but I can't get Black Cherry Merlot to throw decently in 464 after several FO%'s and wick series and sizes which is why I figured I'd add a bit of 4627 to 415 thinking the 4627 would give it a kick... So for those, I poured a bunch of baseline testers as well as scented ones with Black Cherry Merlot about a month ago and broke out one of the 70/30 to mess with. And just like you've seen, I had to wick up as opposed to down. And still very little to almost no scent. The FO is good because it works great in a melter with 494. I may break out the 50/50 soon to compare. TLDR: I had a bunch of wax to play with so I figured I'd blend to see what happens. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylights Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 6 hours ago, SRez said: Will do. I've been primarily focusing on 464, but in the beginning of this journey (back in August) I went a little overzealous and purchased other waxes as well. 415, 444, 6006 and 4627. You know, one of the first things they tell you not to do.... Pick one wax and learn it. Listen I did not. I have some success with 6006 but decided to slow down and tackle 464 first... Seeing how I have 4 cases of it... Did I mention that I went a little overzealous? Bakery scents so far work great in 464 but I can't get Black Cherry Merlot to throw decently in 464 after several FO%'s and wick series and sizes which is why I figured I'd add a bit of 4627 to 415 thinking the 4627 would give it a kick... So for those, I poured a bunch of baseline testers as well as scented ones with Black Cherry Merlot about a month ago and broke out one of the 70/30 to mess with. And just like you've seen, I had to wick up as opposed to down. And still very little to almost no scent. The FO is good because it works great in a melter with 494. I may break out the 50/50 soon to compare. TLDR: I had a bunch of wax to play with so I figured I'd blend to see what happens. Ha! We have that same challenge! Total fear of missing out over here. And now I see IGI has a coco/paraffin and soy/coco/paraffin blend. Try I must! I have found the same with bakery scents in 464 and some florals. Butt Naked is good as well. It's really the lavenders, citrus, and spa like clean scents that seem to underperform in soy for us. Even though the blueberry muffin 444/4627 tunneled, she's still burning and throw is pretty decent compared to all soy. We are excited to test with larger wicks. Will update soon! Also when I went to IGI's website I see no mention of 4627. I'm wondering if they are phasing it out. Anyone know? https://dxm.d7e.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2021/01/IGI-Wax-Blends-for-Candles-Home-Fragrance-Products.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylights Posted March 4, 2021 Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 Update. We have burned our blend testers with Premier 775wicks in 16 oz jar candle that is 2 1/4 at the opening and about 3" at the widest part. Seems I need an in between wick size for this jar. 770 tunneled at first but then got better with each burn. 775 seems a bit big however giving good HT. The flame is dancing around quite a bit, but the jar isn't too hot with minimal soot. One thing I do like about the premiers is they don't drown out. Where CD's would drown out in 10-15 minutes if wicked to small. I'm honestly not 100% sure if I should stick with the 770 or 775. How would you narrow it down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, soylights said: Update. We have burned our blend testers with Premier 775wicks in 16 oz jar candle that is 2 1/4 at the opening and about 3" at the widest part. Seems I need an in between wick size for this jar. 770 tunneled at first but then got better with each burn. 775 seems a bit big however giving good HT. The flame is dancing around quite a bit, but the jar isn't too hot with minimal soot. One thing I do like about the premiers is they don't drown out. Where CD's would drown out in 10-15 minutes if wicked to small. I'm honestly not 100% sure if I should stick with the 770 or 775. How would you narrow it down? If you are at the top and it is questionable, it will usually become more clear with additional burns. The truth of the wick comes out about the half way point, then becomes more glaring as it gets to the bottom 1/4. When you choose a wick from that, make another and abuse it a bit. For example, power burn, and purposely don’t trim before lighting. Treat it as most customers will.c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylights Posted March 4, 2021 Author Share Posted March 4, 2021 20 minutes ago, TallTayl said: If you are at the top and it is questionable, it will usually become more clear with additional burns. The truth of the wick comes out about the half way point, then becomes more glaring as it gets to the bottom 1/4. When you choose a wick from that, make another and abuse it a bit. For example, power burn, and purposely don’t trim before lighting. Treat it as most customers will.c Thank You! I had one customer literally burn one of our candles for 10 hours. Yikes!! One odd observation was that with the 3rd burn in our blueberry, the 770 actually had a deeper MP than the 775 but better throw with 775. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 19 minutes ago, soylights said: Thank You! I had one customer literally burn one of our candles for 10 hours. Yikes!! One odd observation was that with the 3rd burn in our blueberry, the 770 actually had a deeper MP than the 775 but better throw with 775. That’s not that’s not really surprising. If the consumption of a wick can’t keep up with the heat it produces the melt pool just gets deeper. A bigger/deeper melt pool is cooler and can’t throw the same way as a hotter wick sometimes can. the problem with soy in Blends is it’s very dense and heavy. Many people feel the need to make a candle behave like a wax melt with a WIC. It’s hard to get the balance right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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