Candle Thoughts

[Auntjulie]

2 hours ago, Kerven said:

A tiny 2oz tin might require a wick in the votive range. I'm not sure if CD goes any smaller than CD4, and AFAIK CD4 is a votive size. Wicking can be confusing because you'll sometimes see similar results if the wick is either too large or too small. Did you try the next size up? Knowing that a CD4 didn't work and assuming the tin has a diameter of 2", I'd start with a CD5 or CD6. All three of those sizes are rated for votives - CD5 and CD6 for ~2" containers - but the type of wax, anything added, the FO used, and the container can affect results, so published recommendations can be used as a general starting point for testing but not written in stone. Personal experience will also factor in once you get the hang of it. There could also be a chance that the FO is a dud in that wax. It's not unusual for some FOs to simply not work in a particular wax no matter the wick series/size. It's possible that a cooler burning wick series is needed. I primarily work with ECO so I can't give a confident recommendation for that.

 

A speedy and cost effective method I use for swapping out testers is to use straight sided containers and temporary wicks. The container needs to be smooth and flush enough that the entire candle, when chilled in a freezer, can be popped out with little fuss. Then, allow the container to warm to room temp, give it a wipe down, pour a new tester. The wicks aren't secured before pouring. The tabbed base is removed and the wick is trimmed to size before insertion (make sure to keep the wick upright and don't accidentally put it in upside down, else it may not wick properly!). If I'm going to use the same candle to test more than one wick, I pour without a wick and poke a hole in the wax for the wick once set and cured. After burning, the wick is plucked out with tweezers while the wax is soft enough to release it. . Careful not to toss them in a freezer immediately after a burn. Allow them to return to room temp.

 

Wax memory shouldn't be a huge issue in a container candle that small. In a pillar, wax memory is important because a complete melt pool will either spill over the sides, weaken the wall of wax (leading to collapse), or spill through hot spots; it needs to somewhat tunnel, leaving that wall of wax. In a container candle, heat reflected or re-radiated from the container walls will aid in the melting of the outer wax, so excess wax around the perimeter is not necessary and is often referred to as hang up. As long as the outer wax is melting as the flame moves lower, it's fine. And if a little hang up remains, that's not a terrible thing. Sometimes there just isn't a size that works 100% and you have to go with the closest. Just make sure the container doesn't become too hot to safely handle.

 

Also, since you're working with soy, make sure to give it a decent cure before doing a test burn. A week might do. Maybe a little longer depending on the percentage in the blend and the FO used.

 

2 hours ago, Kerven said:

A tiny 2oz tin might require a wick in the votive range. I'm not sure if CD goes any smaller than CD4, and AFAIK CD4 is a votive size. Wicking can be confusing because you'll sometimes see similar results if the wick is either too large or too small. Did you try the next size up? Knowing that a CD4 didn't work and assuming the tin has a diameter of 2", I'd start with a CD5 or CD6. All three of those sizes are rated for votives - CD5 and CD6 for ~2" containers - but the type of wax, anything added, the FO used, and the container can affect results, so published recommendations can be used as a general starting point for testing but not written in stone. Personal experience will also factor in once you get the hang of it. There could also be a chance that the FO is a dud in that wax. It's not unusual for some FOs to simply not work in a particular wax no matter the wick series/size. It's possible that a cooler burning wick series is needed. I primarily work with ECO so I can't give a confident recommendation for that.

 

A speedy and cost effective method I use for swapping out testers is to use straight sided containers and temporary wicks. The container needs to be smooth and flush enough that the entire candle, when chilled in a freezer, can be popped out with little fuss. Then, allow the container to warm to room temp, give it a wipe down, pour a new tester. The wicks aren't secured before pouring. The tabbed base is removed and the wick is trimmed to size before insertion (make sure to keep the wick upright and don't accidentally put it in upside down, else it may not wick properly!). If I'm going to use the same candle to test more than one wick, I pour without a wick and poke a hole in the wax for the wick once set and cured. After burning, the wick is plucked out with tweezers while the wax is soft enough to release it. . Careful not to toss them in a freezer immediately after a burn. Allow them to return to room temp.

 

Wax memory shouldn't be a huge issue in a container candle that small. In a pillar, wax memory is important because a complete melt pool will either spill over the sides, weaken the wall of wax (leading to collapse), or spill through hot spots; it needs to somewhat tunnel, leaving that wall of wax. In a container candle, heat reflected or re-radiated from the container walls will aid in the melting of the outer wax, so excess wax around the perimeter is not necessary and is often referred to as hang up. As long as the outer wax is melting as the flame moves lower, it's fine. And if a little hang up remains, that's not a terrible thing. Sometimes there just isn't a size that works 100% and you have to go with the closest. Just make sure the container doesn't become too hot to safely handle.

 

Also, since you're working with soy, make sure to give it a decent cure before doing a test burn. A week might do. Maybe a little longer depending on the percentage in the blend and the FO used.

thank you again for all that great advise!   I did see somewhere where TallTayl did that tray test! that was interesting!  I wonder if you could explain more about your speedy cost effective method for testers?   I don't quite understand, and yes I cure for 1 week and then again at 2 weeks, so you think there is some truth to the memory theory? for the larger 8oz tins I am also testing,   I under too if you have any experience in getting bubbles out of wax?   this crappy C3 also has bubbles and they all come to the top while burning!   then when it cools again it looks like crap!   sorry for being such a pest, I'm just frustrated and second guessing everything I have learned, seems I have lot more to learn!

[TallTayl]

The smaller the container, the harder it will be to wick.  They just get too hot too fast. 
 

the reverse is true too. Giant containers are difficult to wick, but for other reasons. 
 

Kerven is on the right track with votive sizes. Cd can be purchased smaller, as well as HTP, lx, etc. 

 

as for the “memory”, hogwash. If the wick is the wrong size it will always be the wrong size.. They all catch up at the end if given enough time if wicked well.  

[Auntjulie]

32 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

The smaller the container, the harder it will be to wick.  They just get too hot too fast. 
 

the reverse is true too. Giant containers are difficult to wick, but for other reasons. 
 

Kerven is on the right track with votive sizes. Cd can be purchased smaller, as well as HTP, lx, etc. 

 

as for the “memory”, hogwash. If the wick is the wrong size it will always be the wrong size.. They all catch up at the end if given enough time if wicked well.  

LMAO!!!    I do believe that memory is hogwash too :-)   Is there is a cd smaller that cd4?  it's looking like the cdn4 may be working, but whats really weird is all three testers in these 2oz tins are the same wax combo, different FO, but the one with the cdn4 had soooo many bubbles come to the top, I saw bubbles in the other two but not nearly as many as that one? not sure what to think about that?   do you have any tricks on how to get rid of bubbles?   I think I recall you saying somewhere that some waxes have bubbles, and of course this crappy C3 does! any ideas are super GREATLY appreciated!!!

 

32 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

The smaller the container, the harder it will be to wick.  They just get too hot too fast. 
 

the reverse is true too. Giant containers are difficult to wick, but for other reasons. 
 

Kerven is on the right track with votive sizes. Cd can be purchased smaller, as well as HTP, lx, etc. 

 

as for the “memory”, hogwash. If the wick is the wrong size it will always be the wrong size.. They all catch up at the end if given enough time if wicked well.  

 

[TallTayl]

C3 has an emulsifier that likes to bubble.  One case I bought looked like champagne In the melter it was so bubbly. All I did was let it heat up, stir to release as much as possible,  let it cool, then reheated the wax and poured like normal. 
 

stir gently and pour gently to minimize air introduced to the candle. 
 

when I was messing with plain naked soy and emulsifiers, lecithin behaved a lot like C3 as far as color, scent and BUBBLES. 

[TallTayl]

Cd do come smaller, you just may not find them in small quantities from typical retailers.  I have purchased cd 2 and cd3 from places like candlewic.

 

if you need smaller sizes, you can also try CSN or cdn.  Both are slightly smaller than cd in similar numbers so the stuff you’ve learned translated pretty quickly. 

[Auntjulie]

5 hours ago, TallTayl said:

C3 has an emulsifier that likes to bubble.  One case I bought looked like champagne In the melter it was so bubbly. All I did was let it heat up, stir to release as much as possible,  let it cool, then reheated the wax and poured like normal. 
 

stir gently and pour gently to minimize air introduced to the candle. 
 

when I was messing with plain naked soy and emulsifiers, lecithin behaved a lot like C3 as far as color, scent and BUBBLES. 

ok now all that is over my head 🙂 emulsifiers and lecithin, I don't know how you know all this!! it's incredible all this scientific stuff, but I love to learn!  I will have to google emulsifiers and lecithin, so I will definitely heat and reheat my wax!! I am beginning to wonder what possessed me to get C3!

[TallTayl]

4 minutes ago, Auntjulie said:

ok now all that is over my head 🙂 emulsifiers and lecithin, I don't know how you know all this!! it's incredible all this scientific stuff, but I love to learn!  I will have to google emulsifiers and lecithin, so I will definitely heat and reheat my wax!! I am beginning to wonder what possessed me to get C3!

C3 is a nice wax, usually.  Sometimes I think it all gets unevenly mixed and we get super hard product. A little extra midwest soy wax To dilute it usually helps in my case. 

[Auntjulie]

5 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Cd do come smaller, you just may not find them in small quantities from typical retailers.  I have purchased cd 2 and cd3 from places like candlewic.

 

if you need smaller sizes, you can also try CSN or cdn.  Both are slightly smaller than cd in similar numbers so the stuff you’ve learned translated pretty quickly. 

thank you!  I like candlewic's FO, I will get some smaller cd's, what are your thoughts on double wicking the 8 oz tins? like if I find the correct wick for these 3 fragrances in the 2oz tins, wouldn't two of them work for the larger tins?  I''m thinking with the 2 oz tins being about 1.5 inches, that 2 wicks will burn about 3" wide in the larger tins?

[TallTayl]

Double wicking tins is super challenging.  Depending on your placement of the wicks double-wicking “might” work, but the tin is a tin and will likely give you a super deep to totally liquid candle in short order just because smaller wicks generate enough heat to burn the wax, but not enough draw to use it as fuel.  The balance is usually off. 
 

it is worth a try just for the academic perspective. See what happens to your particular candle and take good notes.

 

spacing makes a lot of difference. Some people divide the candle into imaginary thirds. Some put them very close together with tabs touching or even overlapping. Some wing it. Give it a whirl knowing your spacing experiment can yield very different results each time based on where they are. 

[Auntjulie]

10 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

C3 is a nice wax, usually.  Sometimes I think it all gets unevenly mixed and we get super hard product. A little extra midwest soy wax To dilute it usually helps in my case. 

I just googled emulsifiers & lecithin, wow, I'm just not there yet, this is so much to learn, I don't know how you do it!!!  I googled midwest soy too and it looks so much better than C3!! and cheaper!! Is this the "naked" wax you talked about?  so would this be a replacement for C3 to use by itself or is it a base to be mixed with the C3?  I noticed you can add up 12% fragrance!   oh I had no idea there is soo many different soy waxes out there! it makes my head hurt! and I am terrible with making decisions ha ha! 🙂 please know I really appreciate all the advice you have given me 🙂

[GoldieMN]

30 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

C3 is a nice wax, usually.  Sometimes I think it all gets unevenly mixed and we get super hard product. A little extra midwest soy wax To dilute it usually helps in my case. 

Do you use C3 and C1? 

GoldieMN

[TallTayl]

5 minutes ago, GoldieMN said:

Do you use C3 and C1? 

GoldieMN

I transitioned to c1, but am slowly working through left over case of C3.

 

c1 also often benefits from a little plain soy.  Some cases have been super hard, just like C3.  Wishing we could get C of A for was lots  so know what to expect. I can get them for lye, so why not wax? 

[GoldieMN]

@TallTayl Yeah, I have a full case of C3 to do something with.  I ordered some Midwest so I can play with it and C3 this winter.  Thanks!

GoldieMN

[Auntjulie]

13 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Double wicking tins is super challenging.  Depending on your placement of the wicks double-wicking “might” work, but the tin is a tin and will likely give you a super deep to totally liquid candle in short order just because smaller wicks generate enough heat to burn the wax, but not enough draw to use it as fuel.  The balance is usually off. 
 

it is worth a try just for the academic perspective. See what happens to your particular candle and take good notes.

 

spacing makes a lot of difference. Some people divide the candle into imaginary thirds. Some put them very close together with tabs touching or even overlapping. Some wing it. Give it a whirl knowing your spacing experiment can yield very different results each time based on where they are. 

thank you for that, I think I will hold off on that academic experiment for when I have more time, I may be giving up on the C3 and trying a tottaly different blend, I had no idea there were so many options!   I need to consider more carefully before choosing! Is there a way to offer wax for sale on this site, or is that prohibited? I have a 50lb case still, but I don't believe I will even be opening it :-)

[TallTayl]

Classifieds here are available, though you may be better off on Craigslist since shipping 50 lbs is expensive. 
 

c3 is taking a real beating lately. Yikes. Wonder what cargill did to this formula for so many disgruntled people 

 

one more thought,  a friend uses RRS wicks in her jelly jars with C3. Maybe a different wick series will tame the beast. And when all else fails, add some naked soy wax to dilute the Hardeners . 

[GoldieMN]

@TallTayl Did you find you had to wick up or down with C3?  I was able to go down from 464 to C1.  Still using Premiers but have a few others for testing C1 when I get around to it.

GoldieMN

[TallTayl]

I use Cd for those mostly. C3 needed more wick, similar to c1 in my case lots