Need some professionals advice re wax!

[njcurley]

As others have also, I have been struggling with my soy wax.  I started with 464, was not happy with it at all so changed to C3.  The C3 was doing better than the 464, but I still was not completely satisfied (can you tell I am a bit picky yet?) so decided to spend what I consider a lot for wax and tried the Northwoods soy candle blend.  While it is 100% better than the 464 and better than the C3, I don't feel it is worth the high price ($90+ for 50 lbs).  And of course I had to re-test every single candle each time I changed waxes!

 

So now I am in a pickle as I am starting to run low on wax.  I was hoping the new EcoSoya would be available before I needed to restock but I'm not sure that is going to happen. So what would y'all do?

 

These are my options:

 

I've been reading up on Millenium wax and that seems like a pretty good option, but again would mean re-testing yet again.

Bite the bullet and get another box of the Northwoods wax and deal with it until the new EcoSoya comes out.

Go back to C3 because of the lower price and just hang on until the new wax comes out and then retest.

 

I am intrigued with the higher fragrance load that the new wax is supposed to be able to handle and I'm afraid of going to all the work and expense of trying the Millenium (and possibly loving it) and then still having that niggling little doubt in my head that I should try the Eco.

 

Decisions, decisions.  Help a girl out here.

[wthomas57]

switch to parrafin. Lol

[njcurley]

ROFL!  Well that wasn't very helpful.  There is a high demand for soy candles in this area and I really want to make it work!  I'm a little OCD and stubborn.

[wthomas57]

2 minutes ago, njcurley said:

ROFL!  Well that wasn't very helpful.  There is a high demand for soy candles in this area and I really want to make it work!  I'm a little OCD and stubborn.

Ha, I thought you may like that.

 

Anyway, there may be a high demand for soy right now, but that may change when customers realize soy candles have been tanking. Lol.

I like to use soy in about half my applications as well, so I feel your pain. But sometimes, its better to go with safer more dependable... especially with all the soy issues right now. I dont think any of them are trustworthy. Also, use this time as an opportunity to let your customers know why soy is no better than clean burning parrafin candles. Actually there are lots of benefits to parrafin over soy and you could let customers see those. I'm not trying to push parrafin here as I am not parrafin biased or anything. Just trying to give you other ways to look at and handle the current dilemma.

 

I think you are going to have a hard time finding anyone to offer any soy options right now with any confidence. :/

[wthomas57]

8 minutes ago, njcurley said:

ROFL!  Well that wasn't very helpful.  There is a high demand for soy candles in this area and I really want to make it work!  I'm a little OCD and stubborn.

by the way, I am also OCD and stubborn... which is why I dont use 100% soy. It will drive you mad and is too finicky.

Blends are the way to go in my opinion. 

[moonshine]

Well the only advice I have is from my experience... I pretty much tried them all out until I was completely happy with the results, a few of them I spent a lot of time with and used for awhile and others I just knew after a couple batches it wasn't what I wanted

for Years I have been using 415 and completely content dabbling in parasoy at my leisure to bring in a new line but this years soy seems to of changed as I'm sure you have read and so I'm trying to work out the kinks and bought more waxes to test as well

I have millineum coming Monday, I used this wax about 9-10 years ago but not for long so I don't remember much about it and I am trying out some of flamings blends of parasoy and paraffin 

I used to use ecosoya in the past and will be testing the new ones when they come out to see how they compare - I have enough old PB to get me through my melt blend but have been testing new options for those as well in case the new PB is horrible 

that doesn't help much I know but as a chandler I think testing never really goes away....I'm not familiar with northwoods where is that from?

 

And I do have to say soy right now is not reliable - all big brands anyway so maybe a parasoy is a good option ?

Edited August 11, 2017 by moonshine

[wthomas57]

4 minutes ago, moonshine said:

....I'm not familiar with northwoods where is that from?

Northwoods is just a tiny little business by a guy who is pretty much just selling WSP' stuff.

Its very hit or miss. And they sell kits and things but not independent parts of the kits. A bit frustrating. Lol

 

They either used to work for WSP or its a tiny startup branch or something. Because literally, they are selling the

exact fun kits/tutorials as WSP does. Its mostly Crafter's Choice stuff. Wouldn't use them as a serious supplier any time soon

until or unless they grow and get actual stock of products. Just my two cents

[moonshine]

Good to know... never heard of them and I will not use super small time suppliers 

I just bought wax samples from flaming and that makes me nervous enough because 1. I never used them before 2. They do seem kinda smaller and if I love the wax and they go oob ?‍♀️

 

You never know with any supplier I guess but I have never been a fan of going with a wax outside of the 4 big dogs - GB, cargill, NGI or IGI that is accessible many places but with the soy issues going on I have to wonder if blends from flaming or candlewic might be the ticket, at least for now anyways 

This 415 doesn't even blend nice with other waxes so far to try and make it work 

[TallTayl]

Well, when the new ecosoya options come out you will still need to spend time and $ testing. Just because it can hold 12% of FO, there is still no guarantee it will throw any better than your current wax, or any cleaner. (I cannot imagine having to load a candle with 12% FO!!!!!! ?)

 

i read the new ecosoya packaging cases are smaller, making it a touch more expensive in the end.

 

given how many testers I have made of different waxes these past 2 months, stick with what works for right now, then begin testing the new stuff after you are through the selling season so there is no pressure to rush. 

[moonshine]

To the OP new advice....move on 

with it being pricey and a very small time company I would try something else 

just my opinion 

[TallTayl]

Anyone can buy into crafters choice and be a reseller. A few Facebook sellers I know have done so recently. 

[njcurley]

Thanks for giving me some things to think about.  I have been pondering a para/soy blend, so maybe I will order samples of that.

 

Let me know how you like the Millenium.  Flaming is a pretty good supplier, I use them for some fragrances (the Bartlett Pear is a top seller for me).  Their shipping is amazing fast and on par as far as cost and the customer service has been top notch.

[moonshine]

Have you tried the wax or heard if its any good and consistent 

if that's the case then maybe I will buy into it and resell to myself ?

[TallTayl]

The first thing I noticed with my new trial of millennium is how finicky it is. When poured exactly as directed the tops are great. A heat gun really messed up the finish on the one I tried to smooth out that was buggered at the end of the pour. It cooled Looking pitted, oily and dull.

 

Burned two yesterday and did not notice any hot throw using their coffee FO one with an HTP, one with an RRD. Will try again in a few days. 

[njcurley]

OK, as expected you have given me some things to think about.  I am not going to continue with the Northwoods, it is too expensive IMO, the shipping was OK, but not fast and the wax was meh, not bad, better than C3 but not AMAZING which of course is what I am looking for.

 

I am unhappy enough now with the soy that I want to get it straightened out before the big selling season starts.  Our first big show is the last weekend in September.  I hate being so freaking particular about things.

 

OK, I'm ordering a 10 lb bag of Millenium to test and also want to try out a para/soy blend.  Any recommendations for that?  That will be it.  I will then make a decision between all the waxes I have tried (minus the Northwoods) and stick with it through the selling season.

[TallTayl]

I ended up liking a blend of C3, 415 and 4630. Weird, right?

 

it is awfully close to your selling season to be switching waxes. It took me a few weeks and 100+ lbs of wax in my mad scramble before my selling season, and I had a longer runway.

 

if the north woods one is OK, (and preferable to the C3) I would save the money of scramble testing and stick with it a little longer. It will save you $ in the end. Or just stick with C3 if you have fully tested it. 

 

I am not sold on the millennium wax, which is also considerably more $$$ than C3.

 

personally, I think anything containing soy is going to be less than stellar. When trans fats were banned by the FDA as of 2016 processing of the soy beans changed enough to completely ruin the burn.

[wthomas57]

1 hour ago, moonshine said:

Good to know... never heard of them and I will not use super small time suppliers 

I just bought wax samples from flaming and that makes me nervous enough because 1. I never used them before 2. They do seem kinda smaller and if I love the wax and they go oob ?‍♀️

 

You never know with any supplier I guess but I have never been a fan of going with a wax outside of the 4 big dogs - GB, cargill, NGI or IGI that is accessible many places but with the soy issues going on I have to wonder if blends from flaming or candlewic might be the ticket, at least for now anyways 

This 415 doesn't even blend nice with other waxes so far to try and make it work 

I would agree with this. I would have considered using Clarus long time ago if it was offered more places. But its not.. so its expensive but also could be hard to get it when I need it. 

 

Yes, Northwood is super small. I think its a candle maker who also started selling supplies. Nothing wrong with that, but I cant use as a serious supplier except for maybe one off things I may like. There are several like that.

[wthomas57]

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Anyone can buy into crafters choice and be a reseller. A few Facebook sellers I know have done so recently. 

Yep, that is what I was getting at as well.

 

while I support small business (obviously), for my suppliers I have to go with the big guys when possible

[TallTayl]

1 minute ago, wthomas57 said:

Yep, that is what I was getting at as well.

 

while I support small business (obviously), for my suppliers I have to go with the big guys when possible

I agree 100% 

whenever possible I prefer to go directly to the source and avoid resellers for the same reasons. 

[njcurley]

11 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I ended up liking a blend of C3, 415 and 4630. Weird, right?

 

it is awfully close to your selling season to be switching waxes. It took me a few weeks and 100+ lbs of wax in my mad scramble before my selling season, and I had a longer runway.

 

if the north woods one is OK, (and preferable to the C3) I would save the money of scramble testing and stick with it a little longer. It will save you $ in the end. Or just stick with C3 if you have fully tested it. 

 

I am not sold on the millennium wax, which is also considerably more $$$ than C3.

 

personally, I think anything containing soy is going to be less than stellar. When trans fats were banned by the FDA as of 2016 processing of the soy beans changed enough to completely ruin the burn.

 

Thanks TT.  That is an interesting blend.  Maybe when it slows down I will start experimenting with my own blend.  Right now I am too chicken.

 

My plan is to do one test day.  I will do one each of Millennium, C3 and NW using the same containers/wicks/FO.  Whichever one comes out the most to my liking will be the winner for this selling season.  Period, the end.  I don't "hate" either the C3 or the NW (I really disliked 464), I guess I'm just looking perfection, which we all know never happens.

 

Then when things slow down, I will try the new Eco and a Para/Soy blend or maybe even come up with my own!

[njcurley]

3 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I agree 100% 

whenever possible I prefer to go directly to the source and avoid resellers for the same reasons. 

 

I also agree.  Sometimes you just have to stick to the big guys for your own safety.

[TallTayl]

10 minutes ago, njcurley said:

 

My plan is to do one test day.  I will do one each of Millennium, C3 and NW using the same containers/wicks/FO.  Whichever one comes out the most to my liking will be the winner for this selling season.  Period, the end.  

Just my $.02.... you will not get far testing this way.

 

All three waxes take very different wicks sometimes right down to the fragrances you choose.

 

You will need to burn each as directed, and powerburn to see how they change through the life of the candle. Likewise, they will need a good bit of cure time to see how the burn changes over a couple of weeks time. 

[wthomas57]

20 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Just my $.02.... you will not get far testing this way.

 

All three waxes take very different wicks sometimes right down to the fragrances you choose.

 

You will need to burn each as directed, and powerburn to see how they change through the life of the candle. Likewise, they will need a good bit of cure time to see how the burn changes over a couple of weeks time. 

Agreed... I would change your testing up a bit.

 

Start with one wax (or more than one if needed). Start with no FOs, etc. Try each wax with a few different wicks, based off of recommendations from suppliers or from us on this forum. Also, do a few sizes of each wick type. Start with one jar at a time (IMO).

 

Once you have a baseline for each wax and wick. Go with the one you prefer THAN start doing further product testing.

And test regular burns, power burns. Short burns, etc. Just to get an idea of best overall wick and also a feel for your your combo performs under various conditions.

[njcurley]

Goodness, I guess I should mention that I already have the C3 and the NW fully tested.

 

The Millennium is the only one of the three that I have never tried.  I have a list of FOs and wicks that work in both the C3 and NW.  My plan is to test a few different sized wicks with the Millennium to figure out what wick works best.  Once I get the wick down I will take a leap of faith and add a FO that I know already works in the other two waxes.  After a one week cure I will do a regular burn.  If I am still impressed with the Millennium, I will pursue it further.

 

The only reason I was throwing in the other two as tests is because I wanted compare CT, HT, ease of use and how finicky the waxes were side by side.

 

Does that sound like a better plan?

[TallTayl]

So, that is closer in line with what we've been talking about, isn't it? Use one you know inside out for current production needs, then give another a full test before jumping in. IMO Millennium is a different animal altogether. I suspect it is palm oil, and/or coconut and./or cottonseed as the "botanical" elements. I won't have immediate faith until i see how it works and ages in my set up.

 

For sale, go with what you know.