annoying customer

[JI]

So annoyed. I have my products at health store on consignment. A customer purchased an 8 oz candle. Returned it a few days later saying it did not burn and kept extinguishing. They gave her another. I eat the cost of course. I went in to restock and get candle. Based on appearance this is what I am certain happened. She burned it successfully for a 2-3 hours. She then trimmed wick way too short, almost flush. She then had difficulty lighting it so she dug around with an implement to clear wax around wick. She then had an artificially created tunnell situation. She relit and it only stayed lit for about 20 min because of the tunnelled wax dripping down sides. My candles do not tunnell on their own. I cleared the top part of the tunnell and now it burns fine. Talk about customer user error! They gave her another. Hopefully she will not ruin this one!

One more rant...when I was restocking the store manager asked me if the candles could be used for massage!!!?! As in, the hot wax. I said no. Apparently a customer had asked and they told him "yes"!! So this is why I have product liability! I emailed a follow up to manager telling them not to tell customers this. I said if they are uncertain, customer can ask me questions directly. Scary. What is with massage candles anyway?

[Beth]

I don't understand the whole massage candle thing... too weird. Can you put a warning on your labels not to use as massage candles?

[Guest OldGlory]

People can be so ignorant!

Years ago I worked in a store that sold some of my candles. A customer approached me and asked if my candles were made from soy wax, I said yes. She then said 'Great, I'm wanting to use them for a massage candle.' I told her to hold on, that we needed to talk before she bought anything to which she replied, 'So they're not all soy, are they?' without giving me a chance to say anything else. I said yes, they are all soy, I use 464, soy wax with soy additives. Then I asked her if she could tell me which of my fragrances (maybe 12 or so) were skin safe and she just glared at me. I told her that if she couldn't tell the difference then she should definitely not EVER use a candle, regardless of the wax type, for a massage candle unless it was clearly stated to be skin safe, that the wax type isn't the only criteria she should be concerned with. And further, if she wanted a massage oil, why didn't she just BUY an oil made for massage?

People just don't think sometimes. It's why I no longer make and sell things for the skin, other than CP.

[Chefmom]

Okay, I'm soooo out of the loop here. Are people buying candles and then scooping the wax out and using it like a massage oil/beeswax bar?? Wow.

Wouldn't buying the oil bar that is made with essential oils for the skin be cheaper than a candle?? Just because the candle is soy doesn't mean it's skin safe.

Plus, even if the fragrance is skin safe, the amount of oil used in a candle is WAY more than the % for a lotion.

[jackbenimble]

Okay, I'm soooo out of the loop here. Are people buying candles and then scooping the wax out and using it like a massage oil/beeswax bar?? Wow.

Wouldn't buying the oil bar that is made with essential oils for the skin be cheaper than a candle?? Just because the candle is soy doesn't mean it's skin safe.

Plus, even if the fragrance is skin safe, the amount of oil used in a candle is WAY more than the % for a lotion.

Oh yes this is happening! I have over heard people at shows say this about my candle but they did not buy. Thank goodness! This last show a lady that bought some melts said, "Oh and I can use this also as a lotion too!" I had to tell her that I did not advise this because the FO in my melts may not be skin safe. I did make sure she understood that was not what my candles and melts were for. As for what she did when she got home- well I cannot control that. But yes it's happening and I had my first experience this last weekend.

[ChandlerWicks]

Something else to add to labels! Not to be used as a massage lotion or Not intended for use as a massage lotion. Could be harmful to skin.

[Bernadette]

First, let me say I do not now, nor never have made soy candles. I do know there a ton a people that want to make them, and want to buy them - although they're usually quite expensive(no wonder...when 5 lbs. of base costs over $6.00/lb.).

I know of one place that sells the base for making soy massage candles, and they do NOT have the base under candle making supplies. It's under bath and body supplies.

That said, the schelp candle makers that doesn't want to spent the big bucks for soy massage candle base, but want to command the big sales price(I've seen them selling for as high as $75.00/candle - 8 oz.) are selling regular soy candles as massage candles out of greed or ignorance or both. Customers are misinformed or ignorant or both. :tiptoe:

[Bernadette]

I do know there a ton a people that want to make them, and want to buy them - although they're usually quite expensive(no wonder...when 5 lbs. of base costs over $6.00/lb.).

Forgot to put ton of people want to make soy massage candles, and want to buy them. Sorry:embarasse

[Chefmom]

This is totally bizarre. I have recipes for massage bars and all of them are beeswax and almond or olive oil and essential oils. In no way would I take "soybean oil" from the kitchen cupboard and use it for a skin bar. I have used soybean (sold as vegetable oil) in soap recipes over the years, but I always use almond oil and olive oil in my infusions for skin use.

Wow, may as well use a can of crisco as "soywax" for that kind of thing. THERE is an idea from that survival blog of using a can of crisco as an emergency candle. Now you can just use the crisco as a massage candle!!

[Chefmom]

Okay, I'm googling these things and they say to pour the warm melted wax onto your partners skin. Isn't that a little too hot? Wouldn't you burn yourself with hot wax???

Also, the ones that actually tell you what they are made of don't say soybean oil, they say coconut oil, almond oil, olive oil, hemp oil and vitamin E and it sounds like essential oils may be the scent.

......okay......I just took one for the team. I have several candles in front of me and I just stuck my finger into the melt pool. It isn't like boiling water or anything, but I do NOT want that poured onto my skin. It's hot enough to send me to the sink to get cold water on my finger.

:lipsrseal

[GrinningGoblin]

Okay, I'm googling these things and they say to pour the warm melted wax onto your partners skin. Isn't that a little too hot? Wouldn't you burn yourself with hot wax???

Also, the ones that actually tell you what they are made of don't say soybean oil, they say coconut oil, almond oil, olive oil, hemp oil and vitamin E and it sounds like essential oils may be the scent.

......okay......I just took one for the team. I have several candles in front of me and I just stuck my finger into the melt pool. It isn't like boiling water or anything, but I do NOT want that poured onto my skin. It's hot enough to send me to the sink to get cold water on my finger.

:lipsrseal

I have seen it done at a spa before. The proper massage candles are made with a blend of soy wax and the oils you mentioned and a small amount of body-safe fragrance. The wax is soft enough to put your finger through even at room temp like a lotion bar. Basically they light them up and let a melt pool form while you're getting ready for a massage and either blow the candle out or pour the wax out on a saucer to cool it slightly and then use the warmed wax for the massage.

They're gimmicky but some folks want them and there is nothing wrong with them when made and used for purpose. It's the issue of ignorance on both sides of the aisle that lead to issues. One is customers who think soy = massage candle, and two is producers who want to cash in but don't want to spring for expensive materials or adjust their production techniques so they just slap a massage candle label on their existing soy candles.

[Guest OldGlory]

I work with the public and have for most of my (long) life, so I think I have a good feel for the general comprehension level of the average consumer. To me, the real threat isn't how hot the wax is when you stick your finger in it - it's that there are people who will tip the candle to pour out the contents while the candle IS STILL BURNING. All sorts of complications can arise from this situation, none of them good.

I'm a pretty open-minded individual, but IMHO, a massage candle is just a bad idea any way you slice it.

But again, that is just my humble opinion.

[HorseScentS]

Some massage candles are made in a pitcher so you can pick it up by the handle and pour the melted wax on somebody. lol

[blacktieaffair]

Don't laugh, this question, albeit silly sounding, is in reference to all the posts on this thread concerning the heat of the wax.

Question... Does the wax in a metal tea light oil warmer/melt burner, get hotter since it is in metal... than the wax that is adjacent to a flame in a candle that is use for massage candles... even though the saucer that the melt is in, is 3 inches from the tip of the flame?

[Bernadette]

BTA, I'm not sure if this answers your question or not, but soy massage candle base is not pure soy wax. It has lots of other "body" type stuff(lol) in it. Most instructions for using the base say you cannot heat it above 150 degrees or you could ruin it. Most massage candles I've seen have been in tins. Oh...and a properly designed massage candle is only supposed to be lit for 15-20 minutes.