bart70

I agree with you 100%.....But until we have REAL choice in suppliers, and suppliers who are capable of supplying at commercial quantities and regularity, we will always be at the mercy of them. If I cannot supply product to my stockists (retailers) - They simply go to our larger competitors. We lose business, and the suppliers lose my business - Simple as that! Even at our small size, we are having supply issues. We are now looking at our medium to long term business plan and leaning towards importing our own materials to guarantee supply. We either do this or stockpile large quantities from the local suppliers. Cost wise it is more efficient and cost effective to just import. If we do not do this, we will not exist. Retailers today have choice and are not prepared to lose business waiting for our suppliers to supply wax or FO, when they can be making $$ selling our competitors product. I cannot treat my customers like our suppliers treat me because my customers have choice and will abandon me. Our suppliers know that we do not have this luxury - and therein lies the problem, and the answer as to why this will never improve in the foreseeable future. Off my pedestal now...... Bart70

Thats a shame.... David is normally pretty good particularly by comparison with the east coast supplier. The lack of stock at NCS is probably taking its toll on David as people turn to him for Christmas supplies - he may not be as helpful as in the past maybe? They are either craft stickers or wick stickums.....Given they are sold as wick stickums this is the function that they were advertised, and purchsed for intended purpose.. Maybe send them back for a refund as you thought you were getting wick stickums but got sent craft stickers? (Still does not help you with you issue of getting your candles made though...) As for not sticking wicks down.....Cannot help as I do not pour tea lights. I experimented once with some left over wax but used wick tabs instead. Bart70

How Frustrating!! Definitely let them know....They may have changed supplier or the supplier may be having QC issues. Thanks for letting everyone else know......I don't use them but would appreciate being given the heads up if I were. Bart70

Yes....Have to agree. NCS have not done themselves any favours at all. David must like it when his greatest competitor grows his business for him by providing such ordinary service..... That is a shame....Palm can be so good to work with. By the sounds of things his GG is as user friendly as his feather. Yes.....I am finding retailers like to take the 'safe' road. I find it amusing as so many want something different and exclusive, then proceed to tell you they only want white soy in glass containers!... The market side of things is not a priority for us, but can see how it would be good for the creative side of things to get different things out there. Our kids tend to keep us busy enough on weekends at this stage....at least until they get a little older! Cheers, Bart70

They will have trouble selling it.....if most of Australia has been getting David's palm wax they will not go back to the NCS rubbish. I reckon it is 20% less labour intensive to get a quality candle than NCS wax was. Has cut our end to end production times down considerably. Soy is going to be a big learning curve for me. Already started some preliminary pouring to get a bit of a feel for it. Happy with the pour results thus far - just letting them sit for a while before test burning for throw and wick size which is where the real fun will begin. I have more wax enroute at present to continue testing. Glassware will become the more long term issue. Glass Glow has always intrigued me.....Might have a play with it one day. Is that the GG from NCS or is David stocking it now? from memory GG has been out of stock for a long time at NCS which concerns me - the main reason I have not played with it to date. Bart70

No offence taken.....Containers scare the daylights out of me!....Particularly working with Soy If you want to have a crack at palm pillars drop me a line, would be happy to share some of my knowledge. Best advice I can give is to buy ACS palm wax and not NCS. Davids wax is far superior in quality, consistency, and ease of use from my experience. Wish I had started out with his wax from day one. Cheers, Bart70

Yes...That is right - I am not doing container candles at present but will be embarking on them early in the New Year due to demand from stockists who are driving me mad to develop them! The strategy would be different for containers although the same basic principles of correction (one way or another) would apply. With my pillars I just have to accept that if burned in a cool climate they will tunnel more than those burned in a warmer environment which will tunnel less and do more self consumption. Our stockists are spread over a large area, and even then it is impossible to control which season a candle will be bought in and burned in. the important thing for me is to try to ensure that they will not blow out in any circumstance. Just adds to the joys of candle making!! On a different topic (but one close to your heart) I met with a candlemaker recently who made some great wood wicks in Soy. Am waiting in anticipation for David to release his wooden wicks that he has been working on. They have me curious now..... Cheers, Bart70

Yes....electrolysis.... Two dissimilar metals and an electrolyte......The theory is simple but surprising how commonly it pops up in everyday living. Bugger that it ruined your pots this time round. Bart70

Hi Jonsie, My experience is based on palm pillars. I do find a difference between hot and cold. I tend to engineer my candles to burn as much wax as possible without risk of blowouts. I need to be careful when test burning in the cold as they do not tend to melt as wide as they would in the warmer temps, leaving the risk that a candle tested to burn to maximum in the cool could blow out in the hot. I am lucky to live in a temperate climate where winters are not severe so can test burn pretty accurately most of the year. If a bit cool I usually have the heating on anyway. Cheers, Bart70

Thank you, Was curious as to what the bulk amounts were likely to be. I purchase my FO's in approx 5lb bottles (sold here by the volume not the weight...so approx 2500mls). Have been striking increasing issues with supply of 2500ml (5lb) bottles from the suppliers. From each bulk drum they only allow a certain number of each size to be poured from the drum and cost the entire drum accordingly. Once the large bottles are sold they will not fill any more until the next bulk shipment comes in, which is usually once all the 100ml, 100ml, 25ml, & 10ml bottles are sold. I normally try to keep at least two 5lb bottles of FO in stock but with demand it is getting increasingly harder to do, hence my question about the bulk size as I may start sourcing FO directly from manufacturers to ensure supply. 35lb bottles directly from the manufacturer would suit me perfectly - now to find who manufactures my main FO's! Thank everyone, Bart70

I have a question regarding FO packaging at wholesale level. Does anybody by chance know the size of the drums of FO when sold wholesale? By wholesale I am talking from the manufacturer to the reseller (who we usually buy off). Most resellers package down into smaller sizes to sell to us. I am interested in knowing the usual size/quantity that the resellers purchase from the manufacturers before repackaging. Thanks in advance. Bart70

Interesting actually. We never went into container candles purely due to the volatility of glassware supply in Australia. We struggle enough sourcing stock of wax, FO & dyes to maintain customer orders that we didnt want to add a further complication to the mix. Have always liked the look of Glass Glow and reckon it would go well. Maybe down the track I could be tempted..... Also a note for those who are now looking for another supplier of GG - I recently changed supplier for my Feather Palm and the new wax is chalk and cheese compared to the old one. The new wax is (thankfully) much better than the previous supplier was selling. Much easier to work with a far more consistent. I say this for those who may be changing supplier for their GG as a GG from a difference supplier *may* be very different to what you are used to. Bart70

.......or get a group together and import a container load.... Bart70

Each to their own......Candlescience is free to do as it wishes and voice their reasons. I personally find a couple of their comments very difficult to believe, which makes me personally think they are trying to gain popularity for their 'environmental' stance. I am sure there are many that will read it and believe it is gospel, as is the case with most controversial issues. Each to their own. Sourcing palm can be a hassle for suppliers - getting a good quality wax that is supplied in the required quantities is not always easy. Maybe their recent issues with GG have influenced their decision to move out of the market. The cynic in me could consider linking the two - using the environmental angle to gain some credit for deciding to no longer stock a product that was difficult to supply might be a better PR exercise than just deciding not to stock it anymore. We will never know one way or the other......But if they have done this because they truly believe in the cause then good on them for putting their own financial gain 2nd to their beliefs and ethics. Whilst we may have similar or differing opinions and views on the subject, you cannot discount their strength if they have indeed done this for their beliefs in the cause. Bart70

Not sure as I have never tried it, but if it is a pillar wax and not a container wax it would pull away from the container. How much and if it would effect the look and quality of the finished product would need to be tested to be sure. Maybe pour one and see what it does? Bart70

I am currently using NCS clamshells which were ordered a couple of months ago. Not sure if they have changed stock since. Will be looking for another supplier once my labels are used up anyway (current labels were made to fit the NCS shells). It may be that they have changed supplier recently which might explain why they are melting. Are they the same shape and size as the ones you could pour at 140F? The NCS shells I have are shocking for the lids breaking off - failure rate of greater than 10%. I have some ACS shells here but have not tried palm in them. Next time I am making stock I will try a couple of ACS to see what they do. Cheers, Bart70

I have never had one 'melt' and leak.....only deformation of the blocks. Instead of square sides they end up rounded and dont like being pushed out of the shell. Check the net...there are a number of converters that will convert the Celcius to Farenheit. I would suggest melting a small amount of plain feather palm wax, note the temp, then pour it into one clamshell and let it set. When set, check the bottom of the clamshell - if the cubes are 'ballooned' then repeat 5 degrees cooler. Keep dropping by 5 degrees until you get no deformation, then keep going until the crystals no longer form. You will then have the temp range that your wax will crystalise without deforming the clamshell, and by doing it this way you might only risk deforming 3 or 4 shells in testing instead of an entire batch. In the off chance that one does leak, you will not have 30 of them all leaking together! Cheers, Bart70

Mine varies depending on the feather palm wax supplier that I use. I normally raise to around 90 degress C to add the FO, then drop to around 80 degrees C to pour into the clamshells. Dropping below this with my current wax will result in very little or no crystalising (which reduces how effectively they look through the clamshells). Pouring at 85 or above tends to produce deformed clamshells (with the ones I am currently using....may not be the case with other makes/brands/suppliers of shells). The old saying "Oils aint Oils" is true with feather palm. There are huge differences from supplier/manufacturer to supplier/manufacturer. Some are as different as chalk and cheese, hence my initial comments about trying for yourself to see what works for you. Bart70

Yes...it would be good for melts for sure. My experiences were candles blowing out out within the first or 2nd burn - very serious blowouts. They were obviously burning a lot hotter than normal. It was the most obvious in my 'hotter' candles (ie - the ones that needed cooler wicks to burn properly) but also evident in others. I also had a few blow out 2 thirds through the burn. Upon investigation it was a wick trimming issue - This may be the problem that you saw. This is something I rarely saw previously. I have powerburnt large pillers for 40 hrs straight in testing and never saw anything do this. I looked for variables but there were none - fragrances were from the same bottle, color from the same batch, wicks from the same packet. I got the same results over several candles. I am now getting consistent burns from ACS wax with the same fragrance/wicks/colors. This is how I came to my conclusion. Rob

I hope it is not the 20 ton of 'bad' feather that he was shipped and was having difficulty getting the supplier to take back. Sorry to be cynical.....but once bitten.... Agree on the freight from David - I got 200kg on the way as well as several other bits and pieces and the cost is not that much different to getting it from Sydney. Richard - What are your thoughts on finding a supplier and importing? At the prices indicated allowing for shipping and duties I would be prepared to look at half to a full ton. Rob.

Wick pins for me. I dont have a problem with wicks falling out - I have developed a process that waxes and holds the wicks in place as well as if they were poured in situ. I use specially made perspex wick pins that are grooved to fit the moulds. I never have a problem with an óff centre' wick as the wick pin 'locks' into the top of the mould. The wick pins and wick sizes are similar - very few people even realise that they are made this way (in fact most people who ask about how they are made believe they are moulded in). I use pre-coated wicks. Rob

I have good success with these. The temp is critical and can vary slightly depending on the wax - it is a fine line between getting the crystals and not melting the clamshell. I suggest you do some experimenting until you work out which temps work for you without melting the clam. It can be done if you are careful and know your temps for your wax. I use pillar wax in mine Rob

You could test wax for us and on-ship with a markup - We would still be likely to get it cheaper than in Aus and have some surity as to quality. Wanna start playing with Palm??....:yay: Rob

Yep....and if you are ever lucky enough to actually get a phone call returned from Shane he will tell you how they are the 'biggest in Australia' and everyone should buy from him!...LOL We initially started with 95% of our supplies from them - due to having to look elsewhere when they had no stock, and their appalling service, they are lucky now to hold 5%. I dont think they care to be honest - they now supply a lot of very large manufacturers. My experience is that they are not really interested in the hobbyist or small business operator anymore. Palm supply is currently an issue because NCS got a large shipment of bad wax and changed supplier. They told me they would be out of stock for a couple of months. I reckon this has put the strain on the supply from ACS as people went to them for their wax. I am lucky in that I keep a stock of wax on hand for such occasions. I would be interested getting some wax imported - but it would need to be on the basis that is was WWF approved, and a consistent product. I have had one experience with bad wax that could have had a big impact had I not known what I was looking for. I do not want to go through that again. Richard, Do you have any contacts who you can work with to investigate? Rob

Couple of things I have noticed with getting shipments from Perth as opposed to Sydney. 1. The freight company used by NCS is quite expensive given the distance. Sydney is 4hrs south of me, Perth is on the other side of the country, yet many items from Perth are not that much more expensive to ship to me than Sydney. 2. If I buy 4 boxes of wax (4 x 25kg) the price difference from Perth is approx $6/box more expensive. On a km for km basis this make the NCS freight company look really expensive. It is still a little more, but I dont mind that cost to deal with a reputable supplier 3. The freight per 25kg box from NCS is the same per box, if I order 1 box or 10. If I order from Perth, the freight reduces the more I purchase. 4. NCS flatly refuse to use any other freight company - they say either like it or shop elsewhere. 5. NCS freight company does not ship consignments together. If I order 10 boxes of wax, it can take up to 14 days to be delivered!!! They will often send one box per night from the Sydney freight centre to the local freight centre, who are not allowed to deliver until the entire consignment has arrived!! The company used by ACS ship consignments together. If I order 6 or more boxes from NCS it can take longer to make it 4hrs up the highway than the same 6 boxes shipped from Perth!! Also, if you are ordering a large volume of product from ACS (ie - large enough for a pallet rate) it is worth giving David a ring. I know he has told me previously that in some circumstances he can get a better freight rate on pallet loads. Not sure what glassware quantities you were looking at but might be an option to investigate further, even if it suited you to make it up with glassware and wax to fill a pallet. I agree though, the Aussie dollar is looking so good it is hard to resist getting stock direct from the US. I personally have my eye on a lovely wax melter and delivery system that I dont need at the moment, but would be mighty nice to have down the track!....oh to dream!! :drool: Rob