bart70

Thanks for the responses, I am not entirely happy with my test burns using CDN in feather pillars. They start great but become inconsistent as they burn. Flame heights go from great to ordinary to average to great again during the burn. I have read similar results from others who have tried them - my experience has been similar. I also tried ACS wicks which had a beautiful consistent flame but there was too much difference between sizes - needed an ín between' size. There are not really a lot of options - would love to try CSN if I could get it. It is here in Australia but the wholesaler is not releasing it for sale at present, and is not convinced it is worth using - particularly in feather. Thanks again for your responses. Bart70

Thanks Richard, That is great to know - I have only seen pics of the Crystal wax on their website and was going to order some at some stage. Was not sure from the pic if it came out like Starburst or not. Have you used it? What were your thoughts on it? Bart70

Had a conversation with the only CDN stockists in Australia today regarding CSN wicks. For those who may not know CSN is not available in Australia at present (from the 2 main suppliers anyway). They said they have some for testing (not general sale) but really only believe it is suitable for tealights. They commented that CDN was the preferred feather palm wick as it was designed for feather palm. After spending much time reading test burn results for CDN & CSN in feather palm I must admit I was becoming convinced that CSN was the pick for feather. My own testing maintained similar results with CDN as others have had - inconsistent flame, starts well then reduces etc.... My question is this - Where people have choice between CDN & CSN, Have many found CDN to be their preference? What were your reasons for going CDN over CSN? (assuming that people have) Am interested to hear the responses. Bart70

Hi, Without point them out I am confident that the 2 supplies you refer to are the ones I am dealing with. The wax price is similar (one is actually a little cheaper) - the difference is how they put together the freight charge. One will put large orders on a pallet and ship at a pallet rate if asked which is a substantial reduction in freight. The other treats them as separate 25kg boxes using Australia Post so the per kilo rate stays the same if you order 25kg or 1000kg. Great for Australia Post, not so good for the purchaser unless quantities are smallish. You cannot go past dedicated freight companies for moving large or bulk items for cost effectiveness. Hope I have explained this correctly and it makes sense? I have decided to trial the other suppliers wax anyway - I want to know at the least that if I can interchange the wax without problems as one supplier I have noticed can run our of wax stock for a few weeks at a time. Bart70

Thanks Bugtussle, I think I will order some and try it - The savings are enough to make it worthwhile if it delivers the same result. Cheers, Bart70

Hi All, Looking for feedback on the use of different brands of Feather Palm. I have an opportunity to purchase Feather at a better price from another supplier. The only problem is it will be from a different manufacturer than my current palm I am using. Has anybody noticed any difference between the Feather Palm from different manufacturers? I don't want to change wax and find that its characteristics are different and I need to test burn and 'learn' again from scratch. Everything I have found thus far indicates that Feather Palm is very similar from manufacturer to manufacturer. I guess I can always get a few kilos and do some testing for consistency before making the jump. Thoughts? Bart70

Yep......That was it! Got it sorted now. Have not had a side suck in since I started poking a hole in the top of them about 40mins after pouring. Don't need to do this with the smaller candles but clearly the surface area of the top and the extra wax mass shrinking it needs a little assistance. I actually do my second pour outside the mould - hard to exlain but I wick the candle with the wick 10mm from the bottom and pour into the 'concave' bottom. Once set I then hotplate for a smooth finish. Now this one is sorted....it is back to wicking.... Thanks everyone. Bart70

Thanks Tammy, Yeah...not that far away at all. I bet it is a bit cool in your area this evening. I hear it will be this way all weekend....Brrrrrrrr The CSN wicks sound like the go, but as you say they are not available in Aus. I am test burning CDN's at the moment in both my 76cm rounds (tall & short) and my 76mm squares (tall & short). The only thing consistent about the results is that they are proving to be as inconsistent as those overseas have found them to be! I have some ACS wicks on their way to try....am holding out a little hope there. I am leaning towards the CDN18 for the squares (pending further test burning on the talls), with the jury still out on the rounds - I have not been able to get a consistent enough burn to sway me to a particular size. I am guessing it may end up being a CDN16 but will wait and see. Mind you, I will probably change my mind with the next test burn!! This is all very much a learning curve for me also! Will let you know what I work out with the side deformation problem. :smiley2: Bart70

Hi again, We are in Port Macquarie, We were thinking of experimenting with some Crystal Palm anyway - might have to give that a try if I cannot pin down the problem. There is no pattern to the ones that come out like it - no link to first or last poured. One thing we did notice this evening is that the ones that come out good have a very distorted top (bottom of candle, top as poured) compared with those that are sucked in. My latest new theory (yet to be proven) is that the wax obviously contracts as it cools. It needs to 'deform' someplace, or let air in, to eliminate vacuum created as the candle cools and sets. The candles with good sides have heavily deformed tops which is making me think that the tops are soft enough to suck down and eliminate the vacuum. In the ones that the tops are relatively good, the vacuum is sucking in the sides as it is possible softer than the tops. My next pour I am going to break open the tops to create a 'soft' spot to suck in from before it pulls in the sides. Might be way off the mark...but worth a try. Also having some wicking challenges - but that is another story....LOL Bart70

Thanks for your reply Tammy, I am mixing nothing with my palm other than FO & dye. I tried using cold molds but experienced problems with the lower quarter of the candle not 'feathering' and coming out plain white. In my limited experience I put this down to the mold being too cold and dropping the temp of the wax on the mold surface enough to stop it feathering. It actually produced a funky looking candle if it could be controlled.....The problem also appears if I pour at a temp of 90 degrees or lower. One thing I have also noticed is that if I do not preheat the molds I get a pattern that is very similar to Starburst, when I preheat I get a beautiful feather pattern. I much prefer the feather so have stuck with preheating. If I could get the great pattern without the preheat I wold be very happy! Topofmurrayhill - Thanks for your comments. It has me a little confused as I can pour 6 molds and get 3 of them come out with the side sucked in - no real pattern to it. I have a theory after pouring again tonigh which I will experiment with over the next couple of days. We are unable to buy Starburst here in Australia so am unable to mix a little with it to see. Would give it a go if I could though! Thanks again, Bart70

Hi, I am having an issue getting tall square pillars to mold properly - about 50% will come out with one side 'sucked' in (ie - not square, as if it has been internally sucked in). Initially we firgured thought it was a heat issue with a couple of batches coming out fine when the molds were preheated from warm to very hot. Unfortunatley it has since returned. Pouring is being done at 95 degrees C (which is what we have determined works best for all our other molds). The tall molds are 3inch wide by 6 and a half inches high. I do not see this problem in any significant manner in my small square candles (same width, half the height) Any suggestions?

Thanks Topofmurrayhill, You are a wealth of information and it is appreciated. I have done some further testing and as you say, the voids are not substantial, and are usually in the very top of the candle as poured (the very bottom as burned). I am working on a method for slowing down the cool rate that does not involve boxing as such. In my climate I am guessing that it will only be needed for 3 months of the year maximum anyway - maybe not worth the effort. Interesting you mention the pouring temp for feather - this was my next round of experimentation as I am not that keen on heating the wax to 200 F if not necessary. Will also check out the Candlescience guides. I am also about to embark on wick sizing - we are unable to get the CSN wicks here which seem so popular for feather pillars in other parts. Will be starting out trialling CDN's. Wish me luck... Rob.

Thanks Snewbie, It is clear to me now that the rate of cooling is the main contributor to feather wax pillar voids. I am unable to 'box' my molds as the smallest wick pins I have are too large and make boxing impractical. What ambient temps are you pouring in? I have been experimenting with ambient temps - I have noticed a marked drop in voids when the ambient is 21 degrees C or above at the time of pouring and during the first couple of hours of setting. The voids at this this ambient are minor probably not worth worrying about. This is probably just a large scale version of putting a box over the molds in that it is increasing the temps around the molds while cooling (albeit by tempering the pouring room). Am still experimenting but time will tell - I have some larger molds arriving later next week. Bart70

Thanks for the info everyone....some great tips and ideas there. I had done a forum search and found lots of info on Starburst and Tortoise wax (incidently this is not available here in Australia that I can find) but was not sure if the same applied to Feather palm. I had tried the 'break the top' theory but using thin skewers. Did not think to go further and wreck it up more then refill later. I agree that trying to get the pillar to form up without poking at it would be the best option. I get minimal voids when ambient temp is above 21 degress centigrade (pour temp 95 centigrade) that would not need to be worried about. I live in a warmish climate coming into winter now wth daytime temps usually above 21 in winter (house drops to around 19 of a night in winter). I suspect the rest of the year the warm humid climate will allow a slow enough cool to prevent big voids (here's hoping!!). Thanks again for the advice and tips. Rob.

Thanks Candybee, I have experimented with repouring but need to be very careful to keep the repoured wax within the confines of the concave top as it will run down between the contracted candle sidewall and the mold. Also when I have poked holes in the centre they quickly form back up again. Perhaps I am poking the holes too early and need to let the candle set further before making the holes? Looking forward to more responses and opinions....I am learning things already! Rob

Hi, I am experimenting with Feather Palm and finding that I am getting some noticeable voids in the candles. I notice this more in my square (76mm wide x 86mm high) pillars than my round pillars although I do get it in them at times. I have experimented with pour temp, and ambient temp and almost eliminated it but not fully. My biggest concern is that I plan to pour larger pillars (same size but double the height) and fear that the extra mass of contracting wax over the same surface area the top of the mold will create worse voids. The voids I am getting in the smaller candles are not too bad and would not create an issue with burning. Am just worried what might happen with larger pillars if I do not learn how to perfect it now. Has anybody had any experience with voids in larger feather pillars? Would like to hear any advice or suggestions that people may have to avoid them. Thanks, Rob.