Bernadette

It's not just the pricing, Eric. How can they sit there and say that their candles are organic, made from "baby oil"!?! You talk about marketing hype...I am so disgusted lately with all the c--p I'm seeing and hearing on the internet...I thought we got past all this stuff years ago. Sorry, I've just so had it with irresponsibility.:tiptoe:

Okay...she hasn't sold any YET, but from what I can tell, she's only had them listed for alittle over 3 days since all of her candles are 30 day listings, and the listing I referred to already has 307 hits. That's alot in today's eBay climate. The part that kills me is this: • Wax-free - We use the only patented oil in the world. Our gel from the only authorized manufacturer, Penreco. Penreco has a patent on the gel and is the only authorized manufacturer of this product in the United States. Many have tried to duplicate their product illegally and have produced dangerous and unstable gels. Furthermore, Penreco does not sell the gel outside of the United States. So if your candle was manufactured outside of the U.S. it most likely wasn’t made with Penreco gel. • Soot-free and Toxin-free - Gel candles burn smoke-free and are not harmful to your health. They are made from 96% white mineral oil “baby oil”. Gel is an oil, not a wax?!? Mothers...don't have a candle anywhere near your kids when you break out the Johnson's!!!

It's really hard to tell how much it would cost to make because they do not give the dimensions of the sniffer. BUT assuming that it is the oversized sniffer that Libby makes(which holds about 7 lbs. of gel), and assuming it's a votive insert they are using for the burn part(assumed because they recommend tealight refills), and assuming it's high density gel(the most expensive kind), and adding the other materials; at most, it would cost $50.00 to make, guessing. Mistake to put the red sand on the top, because in over 10 years of making these candles, I've never found a red sand that does not bleed red into the gel over time(sometime a month, sometimes years), which takes away from the forever appeal.:tiptoe:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Red-Rose-Refillable-Organic-Gel-Candle-Decor-/250660732830?pt=Candles&hash=item3a5c8b3f9e Guess I'm undercharging and under marketing!!!!

Well...it's not just insufficient testing by people using gel(shaking head) Saw an auction on eBay last night for a soy jar candle with real pinecone embeds!!!! And on the very top, there were 3 pinecones pressed tightly up against the wick! Pinecones are used for firestarters!!!

Thanks for the info...I'll be maning the phones first thing Monday morning...

I have been searching the stores around here for the plastic pics you put in the top of a cake that say Happy Birthday, Happy Valentine's Day, etc., or are in the shape of a heart, shammrock, or whatever...you know, the kind of thing bakeries stick in the top of a specialty cake. I don't know what to call them to search online...LOL... I want them for a bunch of specialty candles I'm working on. Any help on where to look would be greatly appreciated...

I remember years ago now, the brand Candle Magic had cards of cute little wax shapes. You pulled them off the card, and gently pressed them onto a candle to make a little scene. They still offer them, but not in the detail or variety they used to have, to say nothing of difficulty in finding them. I've heard that you can make your own shapes from micro wax(I think that's what I read somewhere awhile back). It needs to be a sticky wax. Does anyone know if this is right? I was also told there are beaucoup types of micro. I did a search, and can't find anyone who sells it. Does anyone know where you can get it? TIA:tiptoe:

No dispute...just giving my test results. There isn't much I haven't tested.

Donna, I am so sorry for your loss. I am eternally grateful for the safe return of my SIL from Afghanistan and that he was able to overcome the ravages of war, for our daughter and young granddaughter's sake. I can't imagine the pain your family must be suffering. Tom's candles are beautiful, and a beautiful tribute. I'm glad he is sensitive to the needs and comfort those special candles provide.

It's early here, so I forgot, but I just went back and pulled my notes on this test. For each embed type(bought brand, homemade), I held a stick lighter(the kind you'd use to light a grill, candle, etc.) to first, no gel casing. I held the flame there for a full minute. Some were fine, some had black streaks where the flame had been, and some actually lit or flamed. Then I coated each embed type in gel, waited until it was set up, and applied flame again. Basically, the same result. Still, I tested them all in the candle, even though I could tell some were definately going to be a problem, because I wanted to see the result and didn't want to wonder down the line what the result would have been. Glad I did, because the ones that flamed, REALLY clouded up the gel and actually turned the gel a yellowish tint over time, although other embeds that didn't flame also clouded the gel. So each test had a control candle and embedded candle with clear Penreco gel, same container, same wick, no fragrance. :tiptoe:

Penreco gel. I would never use homemade gel as I've tested that too with less than favorable results. I forgot to mention that not only the containers were the same, but the wick and gel density too.

I did not use fragrance in my test. Just gel and clay embeds. For each test case there was a control candle(container, gel, and wick) and the embedded candle(same container, gel, wick, and embed). By test case, I mean a test candle and embedded candle were made for each amount of time I wanted to test at(xhours, xdays, x months, and yes x years). There was no problem with the control candle, only the embedded candle, in each case. And I used a variety of embeds - different store bought brands, homemade, etc. I respect your opinion. When in doubt, and I was, I always test. My test results are what works for me. I was pointing that out. For safety and peace of mind, testing should be done. I did test. These are the same points that were hashed out years ago. The other heated discussion was candy in gel candles. Many insisted it was safe and sold wicked candles like this. Makers said they lit them and they burned fine. But as many customers do, they purchased, and did not light them for months or years as they were so pretty to look at, but eventually they did light them, and many of the same problems appeared. Apparently, over time something in the candy leeched directly into the gel(sugar probably) and caused a problem. Now when you see these candles, they are mostly double glassed.

Holding a lighter to a clay embed that has been coated in gel and left to dry is not the same thing as a clay embed that has sat hours/days/months/(and yes)years in a gel candle, then subjected to hours, sometime power burn hours, in a gel candle meltpool. And it is not the same thing as a thick brick. Embeds are small, thin, and porous. Even if the embed doesn't catch on fire, it can aid in making the gel so hot that the glass shatters. Years ago now, I tested 15 candles at the time increments listed above, as this was a debated question on many other candle forums, including those devoted strictly to gel candles. There were so many pros and cons listed, I wanted to see for myself. Every one of those test candles had a problem - burned exceedingly hot, shattered the glass, lit up the surface of the gel when meltpool reached embeds, etc. - all things that gave gel candles a bad rap because people were selling them(along with embedded wood items, candy, etc but that's another thread). I don't make or understand the process for making clay embeds, but I have seen candles where the embeds weren't sealed properly and made the gel cloudy and terrible looking hours after pouring, that only got worse with time. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. These are my results. I would never use them unless it was the double glass method, and even then, if there was a better alternative, I would use it instead.:tiptoe:

I should have said the 15 cavity ones would be the perfect side. If you get them, make sure to put them on a metal cookie sheet or something, because its the only way you can move them if you have to once you pour. They are quite flexible. They do make beautifully surfaced items.

Some of the smaller ones might work for tarts, but I think the larger ones are too big. For instance, the pyramid one...I have it, and use it to make larger votives. HTH:tiptoe:

Sure hope you're right, LuminousBoutique. I hate thinking about price increase again....:tiptoe:

I would not do it for a couple of reasons. First, back when you could readily buy gel ingredients online, I had to buy some to test because it was really less expensive than penreco then. Without super precise mixing, the end product had all kinds of problems - clouding, burn problems, much lower burn times, low fragrance loads, trouble suspending items, etc. Just about anything you could think of. Much more susceptible to flashing. Alot of people were making their own back then, and gel candles were getting a bad, unsafe, undesireable rating from customers. I never sold candles made from anything but penreco, and I strongly believe that's what grew my business. Customers that gave my candles a try....some have been customers for the entire 13 years I've been selling them, and recommend them to others. They could really tell the difference and told me so. For the time being, penreco is the only gel I will use for it's quality and reliability, and as long as it sells at the prices I have to charge. Since all I sold for a long time was gel candles, believe it or not, I had a customer buy a wineglass candle from me several years ago. I thought it kind of odd at the time that he called and asked what kind of gel I used. I told him penreco and the density. Then he asked if all my candles were made using penreco. Turned out he was a patent attorney on retainer to penreco, and when he received the candle, they dissected it to make sure I was telling the truth! He is still a registered customer in my webstore, and I've spoken to him several times since that first encounter. He told me they check from time to time, not only online but in local markets for violations. I would not want to be the one sued.:tiptoe:

Looks great...reminds of the VanGogh painting "Starry Night"!

I have consistently used gel for almost 13 years, and the price really started to increase when Penreco sold the gel making operation a year or so ago(can't remember exactly when). For example, HP gel from one popular supplier went from $139.50/50 lbs. to $175.00/50 lbs. within 2 mos. time! And then with the rate increases in shipping...it's ridiculous. 360 lb. drums went up $200.00-250.00/drum.

I just got there and navigated around fine. Maybe try again....:tiptoe:

In this case, I don't think anyone was trying to be rude, just frank, which is what was asked for. You will find if you stick with this, that over time, you to will make comments that aren't sugar coated, and are your opinions. Once you're making products regularly, you get to the "nuts & bolts" much quicker than when you first started. That said, take the comments on your prices with a grain of salt. I sell online and my prices are higher than similiar items, but still I sell enough to have this be a 7 day a week business. Remember, online you're reaching people all over the country if not all over the world. So what will not sell in one market does in another. You'll potentially reach lots of different markets. However, when I went to your site, all I saw was fragrance oil pictures for both your soap and candles. You really need to have pictures of the candles and soaps you sell on the site, so people can see what they will be getting, especially if you're selling for more than other sites, or you'll never sell anything. Customers can't smell your products or burn them, so you have to have the best pictures possible to entice them to buy. Good luck to you.:smiley2:

I made a several candles from the Candle Magic wax years ago. It was cool because the wax bits were the size of grains of sand, and you could layer the colors just like a sand painting. It really was an ingenious idea because the wick stayed in place just like it would in hard packed sand. Once the candle was lit, there was very little room for liquid wax to seep down, so the flame stayed constant with a perfect meltpool that formed a solid wax top(when blown out) that sealed in the "sand" design underneath. This new gimmick for soy candles I'm not so sure about. How do you pour flakes to pack hard enough into a container to hold a wick and not have liquid wax seep down exposing a huge flame? I have no experience with soy wax though, so I suppose it's possible that the consistency of some types is such that when you pour the shaving flakes into the container, they break up into very little pieces. Still....I guess the saying is true..."people will do anything to make a buck".:tiptoe:

I don't think it's new, per se. Rather, a spin on something that's been around for awhile. Remember way back when Candle Magic sold bags of miniscule beads of colored wax? Just pour in any container you have, insert a wick, and voila! there's your candle - or that's how they advertised it. Well, what I've seen for shaved candles is the same idea, only advertised primarily for soy wax. Bags of shredded soy wax(like large mashed potato flakes) that you can pour into any of your kitchen glass/ceramic containers that will conform to the shape. Then insert a wick and voila. I've seen "kits" of wax and wicks, and as I say, I've only seen it as soy shavings. If I can find some of the sites, I'll post a link. How did you hear it spoken of or about?:tiptoe:

be prepared for a little shock.... I got an order at 2 am my time in my webstore. Upon looking at the order when I got up at 6 am, I saw it was from a competitor, and she had ordered a couple of items that I'm sure she was going to make molds from and sell on her site, because she had the rest of the line. She paid by paypal. I keep a 0 balance in Paypal now that they're an eBay company. Every time I get a payment thru paypal, I immediately transfer it to my bank. Anyway, when I went into my account, there was her payment, so I went to details and refunded it. Immediately, I show a negative balance in my paypal account. Within 2 hours of receiving the order?!?! So I click on the resolving negative balances link. Well, you're in trouble now if you have a negative balance and need to transfer money from your bank or send them a check!!! I was ticked, so I called. Appears this policy went into effect in August. Any refunds now, and you have to pay a fee!!! She took it off for me because I've been a member in good standing since they began. Just thought I'd give those that didn't know a heads up. My direct credit card processor doesn't do that... you at least have a day to refund with no fees. I may just disable paypal for my site...boy!:tiptoe: