calan

I bought a bag of IGI R2322A Glass Glow from Lone Star last November, and made some candles in 8oz mason jars and 9 oz straight-sided jars. They came out great, with coarse crystalization and deep color.

I then bought 4 more bags of the same thing in March, and just started pouring more candles with it. My temperatures and process are exactly the same (other than I'm now mixing with a slow-moving paint mixer rather than by hand)... but every candle I've made (12 of varying FO and color), has ended up with a very fine crystalization. It's not a lack of crystalization due to cooling too fast; just a completely different type of pattern. It is very fine and more uniform than it was before. From pictures I see on the web, it looks like feather palm...not glass glow. And at least one of the candles pulled away from the jar slightly, and I can feel it "rattle" in the container if I shake it a little.

The boxes and everything still say it's GG wax, but it sure looks like feather palm.

Any thoughts? Anyone else seen this happen?

9 hours ago, bfroberts said:

I made exactly 1 case of 16oz salsa jars with palm wax for Christmas gifts a couple of years ago.  I am pretty sure I used CSN 14. I've got some notes from testing those jars around here somewhere. If I can find them, I'll update you just to confirm.

7 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Those jars are pretty wide. I would be inclined to double wick since glass glow burns down then out so predictably. I had a hard time preventing too much hang up without flames that were quite large. 
 

CSN 5, csn7 or csn9 would be my starting point. Space 1/3 of the jar apart pointing the curl in opposite directions. 

I had good results with the CSN 9's or 12's in the 9 oz jars. I made a test candle last night in the 16oz jar with 5% LS Apple Cinnamon, which was a a good burn (CSN 9) but a little weak in the smaller candles. I used my gut feeling and a CSN 16 (up two sizes) that I found in a sample pack I had ordered a while back.

We'll see what happens. 

Was using CSN 9's or 12's in a 9 oz straight-sided jar, but those jars are out of stock every where now. Any starting suggestions for wicking palm in a 16 oz salsa jar?

I have several larger CD's and LX's, but nothing larger than a 12 in the CSN's to try. Is it worth getting some larger CSN's?

Thanks as always!

7 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Watch those wooden wicks closely in palm.  It was a wooden wick in a glass Libbey jar palm wax that caught fire i my house and sent glass shooting across the room. Charred the wooden table it was on.

What FO % was that?

Hopefully I'm starting off on the cool side, if my assumptions are correct. But I'll make sure to put it on a plate and watch it closely.  

12 hours ago, TallTayl said:

I like CSN in many different waxes often where other wicks fail, so worth every penny. 

That's good to know. Your suggestion of trying a CD in that "Dicken's Christmas" candle I made that just wouldn't wick was spot on. I tried all my usual wicks for that jar and wax (LX 18 through 24, Zinc 51 and 60, and a couple of Premiers) and nothing would burn right at all... but a CD-8 worked fine. Still didn't throw worth a damn, but it finally burned nicely. 

Weird how one FO can be so radically different than anything else in the same jar/wax/dye/FO percentage combo.

I went ahead and ordered the CSN sample pack and a package of CSN 7's.

I'm loving this wax. So easy, beautiful, less expensive, and less cost on FO. And I've already had a couple of really decent candles, even with CD wicks and a very short cure.

I just poured one in the short square mason jar with a wood wick, just for giggles. Might as well push the envelope, although I really have no idea what to expect. I have a good combination of 4636 and a plain .03 - 3/8" wick in that jar, but no idea about the palm. I used wood wick's recommendation of a .03 - 3/8" booster wick in 100% palm @ 2.5", but based on my testing I don't think it will be hot enough. We shall see. 

Here is the FC Woodland Foliage (basically pine) at 5%, after about 22 hours with a CD-20 wick. Pretty good HT, and it only cured about 3-4 days.

Thanks for the excellent info @Sarah S

I know the CSN's are ideal, but I'm just nervous about them. CS doesn't sell palm or even show wicking recommendations for them now (even if you click "all suggestions"), and I hate the thought of getting locked into one wick from one supplier. (I can't find them for sale as "VRL's" here in the U.S. either).

Surely there must be other wicks that are designed to stand up to the acidic waxes, right? 

EDIT:

Another thing... I didn't really want to pay $12 shipping for a sample pack, which probably has two sizes I would need, and then have to turn around and pay it again once I figure that out.   I'm using the smooth-sided 9 oz jars from LS, and maybe the small square mason jars from the local Wally World. They are basically the same opening size, something like 2-3/8" I think (I'm at the day job and can't remember for sure)... the biggest difference being the shoulders on the mason jar, which I assume will throw another wrench into the works when I try palm in them.

Are there 2 or 3 CSN sizes that I could be safe in assuming would cover those two jars?
 

I've also read a few posts to references with LX wicks in palm. I have a sample pack of those and they work well in the other waxes with these 9 oz jars, so I might try one of those. 

If anyone has a recommended starting size for LX, feel free to jump in.

Update...

The CD-18 in the Dragon's Blood candle left wax on the sides, maybe 1/3 up from bottom...but the burn was good with so-so HT (but I didn't let it cure more than a couple of days).

I went up to a CD-20 for the next two (different FO's), and they are doing what everyone says they should...leaving a thin wall of wax, 1/8" to 1/4" and slowly eroding as the candle passes 1/3 to 1/2 way down. BUT, there is very little HT (again, short cure), and the burn rate is really high; almost twice that of a comparable parafin candle. Total estimated burn time went from about 42 hours with the CD-18 to around 27 with the CD-20, based on measured burn rates over 3 test burns. The FO's are different, but they burn similarly in parafin and PB600 waxes.

Should I go back to the CD-18 and live with a little leftover wax? (Maybe I was trimming it too short?)

Is the burn rate on palm just a lot higher than parafin or soy?

On 12/14/2019 at 1:17 PM, Sarah S said:

For a 9oz jar I'd try a 770 in the Premiers.

Of course...that is the only size not included in the sample pack I bought.   

Excellent pine scent. Love it

1 hour ago, Sarah S said:

That looks beautiful! Isn't Palm awesome???

Keep going with that, it looks good so far.

Sometimes 6%FO can be too strong in palm, it really depends. For DB, I wouldn't do more than 5% anyway, that's a strong one!

Yep... I'm liking the GG palm so far. It's definitely different.

I just poured another wickless tester at 5% Woodland Foliage (pine) from FC. I'll let that set up a few days and then drill a hole and maybe try a Premier in it.

First test candle. 3% Dragon's Blood with CD18 wick.
 


After first burn:



Just starting 3rd burn. MP is mostly centered now, even though it doesn't look like it in these pics.

Thanks @Sarah S

I'm really liking it so far. It was much easier to work with than I expected, based on all my reading. It's actually burning very nicely on my first "guess" at a CD18, and the curl has mellowed out as it gets deeper. Not much HT at all, but I went at the recommended 3% instead of the typical 6% that most seem to use, and it only cured for about 36 hours. I got impatient. 

I'd like to try the CSN's, but given the way CS dropped palm and now don't even show recommendations for wick sizes (even on the "show all" now), I'm hesitant to lock myself to a wick with one supplier that seems a bit flaky. And the shipping for a simple sample pack is too high IMHO.

Thinking about trying the Premiers I have since a few people have had luck with them, if I can come up with a good starting size for the 9 oz straight jars. Might start with something like a 765 and see what happens.

Just finished the 1st 4-hour test burn of my first palm candle. I think it worked as expected (exactly as @CaptnKush described), other than the typical off-center burn of the CD wick (which I hate  ).

Do the CSN's burn straight with a nice centered MP... like zincs or the LX's and Premiers?

40 minutes ago, CaptnKush said:

CSN 7 for the straight side jar. First burn you are gonna get this funky shelf of wax at the top as it tunnels. Second burn will usually take that away then the sides will follow as the wick burns down. Its not real thick on the sides but still enough to give you a really cool glow effect. You will know after 3rd burn if you got it right. Its been a while since I messed with these. There is a member on this forum that does nothing but these, Im sure she will chime in and help.

Thanks for all the info.

Is the Glass Glow pretty stable after 24 or 48 hours, or does it continue to harden enough to drastically affect wicking over x amount of time??

How thick should the shell on the side be?  In other words, how do you know if the wick is tunneling or burning properly during the first half?

1 hour ago, CaptnKush said:

You should try the CSN wicks from Candle Science. They were made for Palm wax from what I hear. Thats what I use for mine and haven't had any problems.

What size would you recommend starting with for a 9 oz straight-sided jar?

I have Eco, CD, and Premier sample packs on hand, so figured I'd just start with what I have. I've heard the CSN's and RRD's mentioned a lot though.

Poured my first two test candles with it, one wicked with a CD18 and one unwicked, and a few melts. They came out beautiful with great CT, and the flip was a piece of cake due to how different this wax crusts over and cools (I had nightmares about what that might be like. LOL)

Now if they will burn, that would be awesome. 

Any problem with leaving it in the presto for repeated uses, like with any other wax?

2 hours ago, CaptnKush said:

Take a drill with small drill bit and drill a hole. Just be sure not to go so fast that you crack the glass.

I thought of that, but wasn't sure that the normal 2 or 3 test burns before pulling and changing the wick would tell me much. 

How do you go about wick testing with palm? (Specifically, Glass Glow).

With other candles, I typically pour a jar wickless, and then poke a hole and start dropping in wicks and burning a while until I get close. This gets me about two thirds into the candle with 4 or 5 test burns, at which point I have a pretty good idea and can pour a new candle with a mounted wick to do a full test.

Something tells me this approach won't work so well with palm. 

Do you just melt the wax in the jar after a failed test, and re-pour with a new wick each time?

On a semi-related topic, do you leave unused palm wax in the melter and reheat when needed like with other waxes? With parafins and blends, I just make a big pot and empty what I need into a pour pot for mixing, and then turn it off when done. I just add more wax every few days as needed. Will this work for palm too, or do the repeated heating/cooling cycles mess with the crystalization?

On 12/5/2019 at 6:49 PM, Sarah S said:

 

Premiers are ok but you have to wick way up. Same with CDs. I have not heard of anyone having success with Ecos. For me, CSNs consistently perform the best in palm wax.

This is probably more opinion than you were looking for, but it would really be in your best interest to become proficient with the 4630 and/or a soy wax before experimenting with palm wax. It performs very very differently than other waxes, and will only increase the time it takes for you to feel like you are successful at making candles. Trying too many different waxes in a short time span is one of the biggest mistakes I see new candle makers doing. 

I don't want to deter you from using palm wax, I personally love it, but I would encourage you to focus on making awesome candles from a wax that you have already tested before you move on....

Totally just my opinion though. 😊

@Sarah or @Candybee

What would you suggest as a starting size for a Premier with the glass glow in a 9 oz sraight jar?  I think Premiers would be the best I have to start with (I also have CD's, LX's, Eco's, and wooden wicks... but seems that Premier may be better based on the posts I've read).

Thinking about pouring a non-scented GG candle just to start playing.

And, I guess I'm not going to be going my usual route of pouring a jar full of wax and then poking a hole down the center after it's cooled to stick a wick in?