Flame too high

I'm currently testing RRD (40 & 47) and HTP (83 & 104) wicks in an 8oz tin that is 3" in diameter. I'm using CB135 with 8.25% FO and 1/2 teaspoon pp of UV Inhibitor. Right now, I'm conducting my 5th burn. During this burn and the last one, the flames are about 1" tall. As the burn cycle continues, the flame goes down. With these particular candles, FMP was not achived until 2nd and 3rd burn. Is this flame too large?

Below are the candles after the 3 hour mark during the 5th burn session.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36593977@N02/

The problem I'm running into is that all four are burning nice. The HTP 104 is pretty warm and I'm afraid it will be really hot later on...but I do like its HT. The RRDs are equally nice. The RRD 47 has a nicer HT than the RRD 40, but it's not that significant.

Based on the pictures, which candle(s) do you think appear to be burning best?

Thanks!

IMO....

The HTP 104 looks great.

The melt pool looks perfect, wax is not hanging up, and the flame looks good.

But it is hard to say because I can't tell how hot the container is.

The RRD 47 looks like a close second.

After a 3 hour burn, they are all close to having a FMP.

Keep up the good work..

Islandgirl,

Thank you for the feedback. I've tested a lot of wicks (CDN, LX, ECO, RRD, and HTP). I feel I'm getting close!! :yay:So far, I've been the happiest with the HTP and RRD. In fact, they've both performed so well that it's hard to choose which one. Also, too complicate matters, I was planning to test some cotton core wicks from Peaks. For some reason, I would like the wicks to have an upright posture like the RRD, but I don't want to use zinc. I know in the end, what matters is how well the wick performs overall.

I agree the HTP 104 is the best, but it was also the hottest. After three hours, you could still comfortably touch the tin, but it was warmer than the others. It will be interesting to see how much warmer it gets as I continue to burn through the candle.

I too think the RRD 47 is a close second; however, the RRD 40 is not too bad either. All of them have about the same HT (the HTP 104 was a little better). How many burns into the candle should I expect the wax handup to start to melt? As I mentioned, this was the 5th 3 hour burn cycle. Was this too soon? Too late? Just right?

I also plan to start wicking glass jars. I know you typically have to use a larger wick because the glass does not conduct heat as much as the tins (at least from what I recall reading). How long into the burn cycles for glass containers should I expect the handup to melt? The same as tins or sooner?

Sorry I seem all over the place...Thanks for the help!!

Hey Derek,

Ya know there are many that will tell you that the hang-up will catch up on the second or third burn.

I am one that likes a FMP with the first or second burn.

That is my personal preference.

I know many will disagree with a FMP on the first burn.

But I don't like leaving hangup to play catch up.

On the tins, since they are small, this works fine. .

But on my larger jars, I do not like leaving any hangup!!

I use soy and especially in the colder weather, I don't want to take the chance of tunneling as the wax is harder to burn.

My candles DO NOT use the rule.. 1 inch per hour..

I may get a FMP in 1.5hours with a 2.5 inch container.

I wick considering the 2nd half of my jars.

I do not want my candle drowning out.

That is more important to me than the 1 inch per hour rule.

This rule is not written in stone, so you do what you feel comfortable with. These are only suggestions.

My candles always get a FMP, great hot throw, little to no soot, jar is warm to the touch but not to hot to pick up.

So for me, this is what I consider a good candle.

I am sure there will be others that live by the 1 inch per hour rule,

but I have never been one to follow rules!!! LOL:laugh2:

Regarding the 1" high flame.. Yes.. That is high..

Extinguish your candle and relight...

If your flame keeps getting that high, try a different wick.

Islandgirl,

Thanks for the response. I will keep my eyes on the flame height. As I mentioned before, during the first hour, the flame on all the candles was about 1 inch and them got smaller during the burn cycle. Out of curiosity, how would extinguishing the flame and relighting the candle possibly 'fix' this?

OOOPSS.. Brain Fart!! LOL:laugh2:

Forgot to say extinguish, TRIM WICK, and relight!!

HA! Actually, I trim the wick every time before lighting. I even noticed when I was trying CDN, LX, and ECO wicks that the flame on occasion would get pretty large (around 1 inch).

I'll tell you I find it pretty challenging to measure the flame!! It hurts the fingers...just kidding!

Derek,

I was just wondering how deep your container is. I can't really tell from your pix. Are you near the end of your container? How many inches of wax do you have left?

Deb

Deb,

My containers are 2" deep and right now I'm one hour into my 6th 3 hour burn cycle. At this time there is 3/4" of wax remaining.

Then I think that the HTP-104 is your best wick unless the container is really hot. I like the melt pool and the flame on that one.

Both the HTP-104 and RRD-47 are doing really well. At the end of the 3 hours, both had FMP. Additionally, they both are 100% liquid (total of 5/8" wax remains). Should I be concerned with this? I know that a rule is that the melt pool depth is around 1/4" - 1/2".

Okay...I'm doing the 7th burn for this series of candles. As it stands, I still have the HTP-83, HTP-104, and the RRD-47.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36593977@N02/?saved=1

I've noticed that the HTP-104 and the RRD-47 have pretty large flames and I've noticed some back smoke. I've also noticed that the HTP-104 has quite a bit of soot along on side of the tin on the rim. The RRD-47 has a small amount of soot along the edge. The HTP-83 has a very tiny amount of wax along the sides, but it is throwing well (a little better than the others).

Any thoughts? Suggestions? Is the soot an issue? Can you completely eliminate it?

Thanks...I think I'm getting there...

A lot of the hangup melts in the last few burns. Those last few can also blacken your tin. If HTP-104 is cleaning the sides early and showing some soot, it's probably too large.

I haven't been using tins on a regular basis, but I tested them with CB-135. In one series I tried wicking 6 oz tins with 2 sizes of ECO. I was convinced for almost the entire test that the larger wick was perfect, until it left the tin blackened after the last few burns. The smaller wick consumed all the wax and didn't soot. I don't think you should see black on the container when you're done.

If you end up thinking HTP-83 is too small, don't forget about HTP-93. You skipped a size there.

When it comes to these tins, seems to me the best size often will not melt across as much as you'd like in the early burns, which may decrease scent throw somewhat. Maybe a longer burn at that point might be more ideal, but you just have to decide on simple instructions like "burn for 3 hours at a time" and then get the best result you can testing that way. It has to burn cleanly and safely, not fizzle out, and hopefully consume all the wax when burned according to instructions.

That's what I thought...the HTP-104 is nice, but it's too much of a torch.

Your correct...I did not mention HTP-93. I tried that wick as well and it was tunneling terribly. At the end of the 3rd burn, I gave up on it. It had approximately 3/8" handg up all around and the flame was really small. I still have a few more burns to go, but I think the HTP-83 or RRD-47 are going to be the way to go. I'm also going to poor some candles this weekend with Peak's cotton core wicks just to see how those are.

Question...when it comes to wicking glass containers, do I want to get the wax to melt just like the tins where it catches up after a few burns or do I want the wax to melt faster?

Thanks for the help!

Trim your wick really low and see what happens?

Trim your wick really low and see what happens?

If you're designing candles for other people to burn, you can't assume they'll trim the wick to a nub.

If you're designing candles for other people to burn, you can't assume they'll trim the wick to a nub.

But then on the flip side...

You can't assume that people will burn their candles for 3 hours at a time.

Those people who don't burn for 3hrs a pop, will get some big time tunneling.

As Top said...

Find out how you want your candles burn and put that on your burning instructions.. (Not that people follow them anyway!!)

It will also depend of the type of Jar/Container you are using..

With a tin, I may allow for a little hang-up, it's a small container.

With a 16oz Mason Jar... Nope.. I like a FMP early on.

Question...when it comes to wicking glass containers, do I want to get the wax to melt just like the tins where it catches up after a few burns or do I want the wax to melt faster?

The principle is the same. I find that my 8 oz. wide mouth containers hold in heat more than do the tins, so if I get a FMP on the first test burn, it's assured that the container is overwicked!

Keep playing with your testing - you'll soon get a "feel" for what is working for your combination and what isn't. Remember - once you get everything "dialed in" to suit you, do a powerburn test - no trimming, continuous burning - to see how your candle will perform when abused by a customer.

Well, I'm still testing the HTP 83. There is less then 1/2" of wax left in the 8oz tin. I've been noticing quite a bit of soot along the rim of the container. Is this normal? Is this something to be concerned with?

Well, I'm still testing the HTP 83. There is less then 1/2" of wax left in the 8oz tin. I've been noticing quite a bit of soot along the rim of the container. Is this normal? Is this something to be concerned with?

I've been able to wick tins without soot but it was a whole lot easier with the 6 oz ones. 8 oz tins are 3 inches wide and that's where it starts to get tricky. 3 inches is pretty near the limit of single-wicking in any type of soy container. Then with tins you have to contend with the heat and fast burn at the bottom, which usually calls for wicking down. To make matters even worse, 3-inch straight-sided containers seem to cause a lot of flicker.

HTP-83 looked pretty plausible in your photos, but if you're getting soot at the bottom then maybe HTP-73 might be worth testing. It's not worlds smaller. I'd probably make two testers - one for 3 hour burns and the other for 3 1/2. If the latter worked really well I would at least consider the possibility of saying "burn for 3 to 4 hours at a time."

Thank you topofmurrayhill!

I will try that...so that I understand correctly, by wicking down to a HTP-73 and giving it a little bit longer to burn it may perform as well (if not better) than the HTP-83? Should I expect the same for a glass container that is 3 1/4" in diameter (soot, flickering, etc)?

Sorry for all the questions...just trying to get my head around all of this.

Thank you topofmurrayhill!

I will try that...so that I understand correctly, by wicking down to a HTP-73 and giving it a little bit longer to burn it may perform as well (if not better) than the HTP-83? Should I expect the same for a glass container that is 3 1/4" in diameter (soot, flickering, etc)?

Sorry for all the questions...just trying to get my head around all of this.

I wouldn't venture to predict how it would perform; I just think it's worth testing.

The thing you may not have your head around yet is that the process doesn't always lead to an answer. Sometimes nothing works as well as you'd like it to.

What works well enough for one candlemaker might not be acceptable to another. There's no absolute standard for what's right and wrong. It's really up to you. You have to test a lot of possibilities and see what's the best you can get. If you think it's good enough, you can call it a finished design. If not, you shelve it and work on some other candle. Possibly come back to it later.

People underestimate the amount of experience and testing that goes into making really good stuff. Some candles might get designed relatively quickly. Others might take months or years to get right, as you experiment and learn.

topofmurrayhill,

Thanks! You helped me put things into perspective...I'll let you know how the HTP-73 works out.

Thanks, again.