beeswax and soy questions

[Alona]

I am new to this industry.  I'm blending waxes and fragrance oils and testing tins and jars etc.  I'm trying to have solid results before the end of June because I want to sell at the watermelon festival.  I have beeswax with FO and a woodwick. That has to be hit with a heatgun the wax has a crack. The beeswax/coconut at 70%/30% with dye and FO has a scent before being lit. It has almost no scent while burning.  The third candle is a 6oz square glass jar coconut/soy(444) 80%/20% FO no dye.  I've not burned it yet. I hope this one turns out great. The first photo is the beeswax/coconut candle first lit.  The second photo is first burn after 3 hours right before extinguishing it.

[Alona]

[Trappeur]

Alona the art of candle making is something that cannot be rushed.  It takes much much time and $$$$ and much testing to learn about and put out a finished product that is of quality and very much safe to offer for resale to the public.  Most of seasoned chandlers took years to learn to perfect this art.   It was a good 1 1/2 years or maybe 2 years b/4 I felt comfortable to even sell mine.  You say you are brand new and are trying combos of waxes and jars and want to be ready for a show in a matter of 2 months?     There is no possible way you could be ready for June (2 months) when you haven't decided what wax you are even going to go with no less figure out your wicking.   Not trying to be mean...but you have taken on 2 waxes that really I would have a hard time to learn about and blend.  Tall Tayle on the forum here is really the pro that can tell you all about beeswax and I'm sure she will come along and post here.   In all these pictures you are extremely overwicked, 1 tin the wood wick is not even centered so you won't get a good result, the tins are fillled way too high you couldn't get a lid on.  The glass container is way over wicked also so much that you can see all the way to the bottom and these are all on the first burns.  How long was your cure time?   If you could give as much info on your process of making the candles like what percentage oil and what size wicks you have started out it would help so others could start giving advice.   But I would definitely forget about selling for a long time.  Putting out a product that has not been finalized and experimented with could be extremely dangerous to the person who buys the product and very much a fire hazard.   Don't get discouraged.  It just takes time and much patience and lots and lots of testing.

 

Trappeur 

[Sarah S]

@Alona, how long have you been experimenting with candles? Are those the first candles you've poured?

I don't want to be a downer, but you have chosen the most troublesome wax, wick, and container combination possible. With the materials you have chosen, you are looking at several months, if not longer, to get a single useable candle.

@Trappeur has some great advice and years of successful business experience to back it. If I can make an analogy, the type of candle you are trying to make now, would be like me trying to bake a wedding cake from scratch when I can barely get an edible cupcake from a box mix. 😂

I would suggest doing a forum search for "beeswax" and for "wood wicks". Tons of great threads will pop up, full of useful advice. Soy wax you don't need to search hard for, the first page in this subforum has several threads on the challenges of soy. IMO, I wouldn't even think of introducing fragrance until I had a good unscented candle first. 

Again, I don't want to be discouraging, but candle making is definitely a lot more complicated than it seems. Take your time, enjoy the learning process, and do not be in a rush to sell. A professional chandler needs the same kind of education and practical experience as a chef, seamstress, horticulturalist, electrician, or anyone else in the trade or skill-based industry.

[Sarah S]

Wanted to add, if you could give us more detail on your candle making process, that would be a big help with trouble shooting. Minimally we would need:

1. Type of wax, % of mix, manufacturer, etc

2. Size of wick and manufacturer or seller or series

3. Size of container

4. Fragrance oil and % used

5. Heating temp, FO phase temp, pouring temp

6. Cure time

 

...did I forget anything? Basically the more info you can give, the better! 🙂

[Alona]

On 4/9/2018 at 2:53 AM, Trappeur said:

Alona the art of candle making is something that cannot be rushed.  It takes much much time and $$$$ and much testing to learn about and put out a finished product that is of quality and very much safe to offer for resale to the public.  Most of seasoned chandlers took years to learn to perfect this art.   It was a good 1 1/2 years or maybe 2 years b/4 I felt comfortable to even sell mine.  You say you are brand new and are trying combos of waxes and jars and want to be ready for a show in a matter of 2 months?     There is no possible way you could be ready for June (2 months) when you haven't decided what wax you are even going to go with no less figure out your wicking.   Not trying to be mean...but you have taken on 2 waxes that really I would have a hard time to learn about and blend.  Tall Tayle on the forum here is really the pro that can tell you all about beeswax and I'm sure she will come along and post here.   In all these pictures you are extremely overwicked, 1 tin the wood wick is not even centered so you won't get a good result, the tins are fillled way too high you couldn't get a lid on.  The glass container is way over wicked also so much that you can see all the way to the bottom and these are all on the first burns.  How long was your cure time?   If you could give as much info on your process of making the candles like what percentage oil and what size wicks you have started out it would help so others could start giving advice.   But I would definitely forget about selling for a long time.  Putting out a product that has not been finalized and experimented with could be extremely dangerous to the person who buys the product and very much a fire hazard.   Don't get discouraged.  It just takes time and much patience and lots and lots of testing.

 

Trappeur 

Thanks. I took the pic of the square glass right after pouring and before cutting the wick.  Yes i overfilled the tin. I'm not doing the festival I know thats too soon. I started adjuating my room temp.  The cherry blossom in the glass jar was good.  

[Alona]

On 4/12/2018 at 3:22 PM, Sarah S said:

@Alona, how long have you been experimenting with candles? Are those the first candles you've poured?

I don't want to be a downer, but you have chosen the most troublesome wax, wick, and container combination possible. With the materials you have chosen, you are looking at several months, if not longer, to get a single useable candle.

@Trappeur has some great advice and years of successful business experience to back it. If I can make an analogy, the type of candle you are trying to make now, would be like me trying to bake a wedding cake from scratch when I can barely get an edible cupcake from a box mix. 😂

I would suggest doing a forum search for "beeswax" and for "wood wicks". Tons of great threads will pop up, full of useful advice. Soy wax you don't need to search hard for, the first page in this subforum has several threads on the challenges of soy. IMO, I wouldn't even think of introducing fragrance until I had a good unscented candle first. 

Again, I don't want to be discouraging, but candle making is definitely a lot more complicated than it seems. Take your time, enjoy the learning process, and do not be in a rush to sell. A professional chandler needs the same kind of education and practical experience as a chef, seamstress, horticulturalist, electrician, or anyone else in the trade or skill-based industry.

Thanks. I decided to scrap all the plying around with blending.  I decided to try igi6006.  The gb444 and coconut 83 blend was good. It gave good hot throw and melt pool. Im sure it could have been better if i had the correct wood wick. I bought that pack crom Michaels just to see.  I have not finished burning it but each time i do i trim it.  I dont think you all are being mean or downers. I love it actually.  Im enjoying the process and wont rush it. Im just trying to test what i read online because reading only wont get me there.  Do you all find the igi6006 to be bad?  I want to try it unscented no dye.  As far as beeswax goes, i wanted to buy it from Busybee or glorybee and try it unscented.

[Alona]

On 4/12/2018 at 3:29 PM, Sarah S said:

Wanted to add, if you could give us more detail on your candle making process, that would be a big help with trouble shooting. Minimally we would need:

1. Type of wax, % of mix, manufacturer, etc

2. Size of wick and manufacturer or seller or series

3. Size of container

4. Fragrance oil and % used

5. Heating temp, FO phase temp, pouring temp

6. Cure time

 

...did I forget anything? Basically the more info you can give, the better! 🙂

I will look at my notes as i am at work this morning.  I did make wax melts with 8oz of the ecosoya q230 from aztec with 10% lavender oil from candle science.  They made 12 0.6oz cubes from a silicone mold. I should call it loud lavender haha.  I hated the vinegar smell from the ecosoya q230 wax.  Thats about the only thing i would make with it.  

[Alona]

This is q230 from aztec. Unscented no dye. 6.3oz. Lx 24 6" wick from CandleScience. 1st burn. I have the wick a tiny bit long.

[Alona]

After over 3.5hrs if the first burn i made just a few notes. The wick gave an amber glow for about 2mins after putting out the flame. The smoke scent went all throughout the house. Rhe wax pool went out to the edge of the container. The glass was barely warm to touch while burning. I took pics after the burn. See below. 

[Alona]

On 4/12/2018 at 3:29 PM, Sarah S said:

Wanted to add, if you could give us more detail on your candle making process, that would be a big help with trouble shooting. Minimally we would need:

1. Type of wax, % of mix, manufacturer, etc

2. Size of wick and manufacturer or seller or series

3. Size of container

4. Fragrance oil and % used

5. Heating temp, FO phase temp, pouring temp

6. Cure time

 

...did I forget anything? Basically the more info you can give, the better! 🙂

Please see below. Hi

[TallTayl]

In my opinion, that is a bit overwicked. By the midpoint it will likely be very hot. Glass holds heat efficiently, so the remaining wax in the jar melts very easily, forcing more fuel into the wick. More fuel = bigger, hotter flame which in turn melts more of the remaining wax. 

[Alona]

9 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

In my opinion, that is a bit overwicked. By the midpoint it will likely be very hot. Glass holds heat efficiently, so the remaining wax in the jar melts very easily, forcing more fuel into the wick. More fuel = bigger, hotter flame which in turn melts more of the remaining wax. 

Ok. CandleScience recommended going up a size so i will wick with a lx22 6".  Do i need to burn this candle anymore since its overwicked?

[TallTayl]

You should be able to carefully pull the wick out and thread the new one down the hole for testing. 

[Alona]

2 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

You should be able to carefully pull the wick out and thread the new one down the hole for testing. 

Oo. Even if its pretabbed and hot glued down?

[TallTayl]

Maybe I missed it, but how long has it cured? soy waxes tend to harden over time. if this candle is younger than a week, i’d Cure longer then burn again. 

 

 

[TallTayl]

Yes, carefully grab the wick using needle nose pliers and give a firm pull. The wicks tend to pull out of the tabs. 

[Alona]

1 week.

[TallTayl]

Give it another before pulling that one

[Alona]

K

[Alona]

Starting 2nd burn. Q230 lx 24 plain wax.

Taken 7:07 and 7:21pm now 

[Alona]

This is almost 3 hours of burning. Theres another with a lx 22 wick but its not cured yet.

[Trappeur]

Well I would say the wick is too big and I don't like the black chips of wax floating around.  The flame is rather tall and it looks like a rather deep melt pool depth has developed which is only going to keep getting deeper.   I'm thinking that this style wick needs to be changed.

 

Trappeur

[TallTayl]

Ok, so after an additional week of cure, the burn has not changed much. Another hour or two of burn at this point looks like it will push this candle into far too hot of a burn. At this point I would eliminate this size wick for this wax. You gave it a good chance.

 

the melt pool is a bit off center which makes this one more challenging. This is typical of flat braid wicks IME. 

 

If you have smaller sizes of lx, go ahead and pull this wick with pliers. If it does not separate from the wick tab secured to the bottom, you’ll need to pour a new one. 😕

 

try two sizes smaller at first. Give it another full 3 hour burn. Compare notes.

 

You are getting to the mid point where everything changes. The glass will hold more and more heat, meaning the rest of the wax in the jar will begin to melt from the outside inward, and from the base of the flame outward. You go from what looks like perfection to all liquid in the blink of an eye. The flame will start to consume too much fuel making it grow larger and hotter until it can’t keep up and may begin to puff smoke, possibly grow taller and as the melt pool temp heats up. the wick may begin to sag or lean as the wax prime coating melts away making it appear the flame is drowning. This can all happen very quickly. 

[Alona]

3 hours ago, Trappeur said:

Well I would say the wick is too big and I don't like the black chips of wax floating around.  The flame is rather tall and it looks like a rather deep melt pool depth has developed which is only going to keep getting deeper.   I'm thinking that this style wick needs to be changed.

 

Trappeur

Good morning. What wick would you suggest?  When i lit the candle the 1st time i knicked the wax