Trademark Anyone? Need Some Help

[sisters3]

Hello, looking for just a bit of help here.

I won't bore you with all of the details, BUT if there are any chandlers out there that have registered their trademark, either federal or state, PLEASE let me know. I have just a few questions.

Thanks so much!!

[blt212]

Yes, I trademarked my business name...it was actually pretty easy...check out Legalzoom...they will walk you through the process and they are reasonable....good luck!

[sisters3]

Yes, I trademarked my business name...it was actually pretty easy...check out Legalzoom...they will walk you through the process and they are reasonable....good luck!

Thanks very much. The question I have is what classification code should be used for candles. Here is all that I could find:

Class 4 (Lubricants and fuels).

Industrial oils and greases; lubricants; dust absorbing, wetting and binding compositions; fuels (including motor spirit) and illuminants; candles, wicks.

Would this be correct? Is this the class that you used as a chandler?

Thank you very much!!

Edited To Say: I am doing state registration first, on my own. Will eat the expense of federal filing later in the year, God willing

Edited February 15, 2012 by sisters3

[funkymonkey66]

Make sure to run a nationwide search before you try to trademark (even in your state). If there is something too similar your application will get denied and you will not get your money back.

uspto.gov has a section to do the basic search but the examiner will have the final say as long as no one opposes it. Good luck.

Edited February 16, 2012 by funkymonkey66

[sisters3]

Make sure to run a nationwide search before you try to trademark (even in your state). If there is something too similar your application will get denied and you will not get your money back.

uspto.gov has a section to do the basic search but the examiner will have the final say as long as no one opposes it. Good luck.

Thank you, good thought. I did both the nationwide and state search, nothing close.

I still need some advise on the "Class of Goods" the only definition I could find was this:

Class 4 (Lubricants and fuels).

Industrial oils and greases; lubricants; dust absorbing, wetting and binding compositions; fuels (including motor spirit) and illuminants; candles, wicks.

If there is anyone that has applied for a trademark and is a chandler your help would REALLY be appreciated.

Funkymonkey66 or Brenda (blt212) Do either of you know if this is the right classification of goods?

TIA for any help

Susan

Edited February 16, 2012 by sisters3

[funkymonkey66]

Well what do you make, candles or candles and B&B. Is that example for a state? I would skip state and do federal. Cover all the states instead of just one.

I'll look at my trademark certs. It has the class on there. I actually registered a few names/products to protect myself even more in multiple classes so I'll see what the paperwork says.:smiley2:

Since I've recently been infringed upon and now filed a federal lawsuit against the SOB that stole from me my attorney handles everything. Gotta love trademarks lol

[sisters3]

Well what do you make, candles or candles and B&B. Is that example for a state? I would skip state and do federal. Cover all the states instead of just one.

I'll look at my trademark certs. It has the class on there. I actually registered a few names/products to protect myself even more in multiple classes so I'll see what the paperwork says.:smiley2:

Since I've recently been infringed upon and now filed a federal lawsuit against the SOB that stole from me my attorney handles everything. Gotta love trademarks lol

Wow what drag about the infringment!!! How were you able to find out? Good Luck....make them pay!! That's rotten!!

We make only candles, the classification needed for the state registration IS the federal class designation, all the same. I really appreciate your help on this, IF you do find that this "Class 4" is the one to use would you mind either PMing me or posting here?

Thank you again!

[funkymonkey66]

Google and customers asking if I opened another business. She was able to tag along to my name when she used part of it in her Co. name. Must be nice, I've paid my dues for 8 years on the net trying to move up and she just chopped the name so it's similar and right to the top she went. That along with copying my logo and products etc. AND I have to thank God for facebook. I've copied more evidence off her pages and it's going to be a slam dunk for us.

Trademark infringement is some serious stuff. We're even going after the retailers she wholesales to, craft fairs she sells at etc. She had a chance to just stop and walk away after the C&D but I guess she just couldn't help from her nature of being a lazy thief hitching a free ride. Trust me, she'll pay alright And once the courts are done I'm going back to Disney for a week on her dime.

Yeah, it would be 4. But keep in mind if you're in NY and someone else is in FL with the same name it's not worth the paper it's written on if it's not Federal. Something to think about.

[sisters3]

WOW what a story! Have a blast at Disney and shame on HER. Thank goodness for heads up customers and BRAVO to you for going after her!! All the best to you in the future.

Understood, I will for now register at the state level and WILL go national once we see the success of our men's line.

Thank you again for your help and again, good luck!

[snowman]

Here's a negative opinion. Trademarks are a must to have if you have a product with nationwide sales potential. However, if your trademark is copied or partially copied, you got to prove it was done with intent to deprive you of sales and income. Frequently hard to do. But here is the reality check, you got to sue the copier for your damages - which is also hard to prove. How many sales did the copier deprive you of? Do you have a sales organization that would have sold to copier's customers if not for their infringement. A lot of attorneys will take any case if you got the dollars. You can usually determine the value of your claim if the attorney will take it on a contingency basis. So you get a judgment against the copier, now you have to collect your judgment. If the copier does not have a large bank account or real property you can attach, you are SOL. My opinion, trademarks are of little value unless you have the potential for sales to generate the dollars to enforce it.

[sisters3]

Snowman, wow, very good information, sounds like you've had some experience (??)

My objective is actually 2-fold, first to be sure that I am not infringing on anyone else and secondly, I've come with what I believe to be a pretty decent slogan for our new men's line of candles, so I would like to get my name on it to the extent that the law allows.

Will we have the "sales to generate the dollars to enforce it" ? I hope so, but that remains to be seen. I am only doing the state registration for that reason, less expensive. If it seems the product will "take off" then we will go for a federal registration.

Your information/insight is greatly appreciated! Thank you!

Edited February 17, 2012 by sisters3

[funkymonkey66]

Here's a negative opinion. Trademarks are a must to have if you have a product with nationwide sales potential. However, if your trademark is copied or partially copied, you got to prove it was done with intent to deprive you of sales and income. Frequently hard to do. But here is the reality check, you got to sue the copier for your damages - which is also hard to prove. How many sales did the copier deprive you of? Do you have a sales organization that would have sold to copier's customers if not for their infringement. A lot of attorneys will take any case if you got the dollars. You can usually determine the value of your claim if the attorney will take it on a contingency basis. So you get a judgment against the copier, now you have to collect your judgment. If the copier does not have a large bank account or real property you can attach, you are SOL. My opinion, trademarks are of little value unless you have the potential for sales to generate the dollars to enforce it.

However in my case which I can't go to far into detail pending all the litigation. I have proved it and the law firm I hired happens to be one of the top trademark law firms in the US. I am very confident I'll win

Your information isn't entirely correct but there's plenty of information on the internet regarding Trademarks and the law like fines and jail yada yada.

From your reality check post it sounds as if you're saying it's okay to steal as long as you're not taking too much, which is beyond comprehension. lol Not the way it works, someone can't just steal a little and it's not going unpunished. Stealing is stealing and if you've Trademarked the law is on your side.

Edited February 18, 2012 by funkymonkey66

[snowman]

Big misunderstanding, no way would I even insinuate it's ok to steal in any amount. Spent too many years pursuing those that steal. Trademarks and patients are total necessary for the protection of your interest in the products you produce. But only to the point it is economical feasible. Trademark infringement is not a criminal matter and you can only go to jail and or be fined for the commission of a crime. Unless the infringement of that trademark includes counterfeiting, such as popular clothing and purse manufacturers, which is a crime. You can spend a boat load of money for a trademark or patient and it be copied by a foreign company, which you can't do diddley squat about unless you got a unlimited bank account. Doesn't make it right, but it's reality. The person who has infringed on your copyright probably has done it before, basing my opinion on their ignoring your C&D notice. They know to hide their proceeds well and are probably judgment proof and if not, bankruptcy tosses your claim out the window. Unless you got the funds to hire investigators to find their stash. Don't mean to disagree with you, just pointing out the reality of such matters.

[funkymonkey66]

Thanks for clearing that up snowman. As I said, I can't say too much at this point but I can say in my case that extensive homework was done before the decision was made : )

I agree about overseas, it's impossible unless you're a multi-million dollar company like NB which spends over 2 million a year defending their mark.

So I have to ask, did you get permission from the bottle manufacture to copy their design and if not what would you do if they sent you a C&D for making molds of their design?

[snowman]

Some I have permission from and some I don't. Those that I do not, I have tried. The company that the original bottle pertains to doesn't exist as a business structure or the trademark is no longer used or valid. Some will not respond, does that mean they don't care or just waiting to make a trademark claim. If I get a C&D notice, I'll determine the validity of the notice. Just because you get a C&D notice from an attorney doesn't mean it's valid or legitimate. I'm sure you are aware that a trademark has to be renewed periodically and if not, it's fair game. Otherwise, if the C&D and trademark is legit - I'll stop immediately. If you will note, I have inroduced a magnetic candle holder is this section of the forum. I think it's unique and cannot find that another company has anything similar. I have made no attempt to copyright, trademark or acquire any form of protection. I could spend a few thousand dollars obtaining that protection and a foreign company could have it copied and selling at a cost that I can't compete with tomorrow. I would rather let my friends on this forum use the idea at no cost. I am not trying to imply your action is wrong - just that there is another side to consider.

[ChandlerWicks]

That is very kind of you to share your invention. I know I appreciate all the wonderful sharing that goes on here.

My concern for you is this: If you don't patent your invention, what if someone else copies & patents it & then you lose all your hard work. I know you could fight & try to prove you invented it, but would that be worth it instead of just trademarking it yourself? I'm asking this because I'm also considering trademarking. Not so that I keep others from copying (won't happen, so not going to worry about it!) but so that I am not accused of stealing my own idea.

[funkymonkey66]

Very interesting snowman. Thanks for the contribution friend, both opinion,input on the uselessness of Trademarks and free to use innovative idea to hot glue a small magnet to a candle base.

I always appreciate the other side of the coin.

Edited February 18, 2012 by funkymonkey66

[snowman]

Chandler - You protect or validate that you are the originator of an idea by placing a description, notes, diagrams, emails, dated photos, etc., in an envelope sealed with the tape that you have to cut to open and mailing it to your self. When you mail it, you have the postal clerk date stamp the seal. When you receive the envelope, don't open it, put in a safe or lock box for use should your ownership of the idea ever be questioned.

Funkymonkey - I'm concerned that you are taking my comments as a personal attack on you. Please be assured that my comments are not directed at or questioning anything you have done to protect your business. You have done what you deemed necessary for you and your situation. Win, loose or draw - that's all anyone can do. The original poster of this thread asked for comments regarding Trademarks. All I was simply trying to accomplish was to point out there is another side of Trademark filing to explore before making a decision to do so.

And "hot glue" won't work...