Candle Company Speaks out about Soy!

[ChandlerWicks]

Sounds good! Thanks HS!

Yes, it's amazing! I had gotten to the point where I thought my metabolism was not capable of losing weight even when I would swim laps for 1 hour each day, or I lost soooo slowly and plateaued all the time. But with OxyElite Pro, I'm not even counting calories or carbs, I just stick to lean meat, fish, eggs, Greek yogurt, olive oil or Smart Balance margarine, nuts, a little cheese, fruits, vegies, and complex carbs like legumes, whole wheat, brown rice, rice cakes...but no sugar, juice, or refined carbs like white flour or white rice, and I eat sweet potatoes with Splenda brown sugar, but avoid white potatoes. I can't believe it's working! I swim every other day. It gives me good energy without making me feel jittery. There are many reviews of it on YouTube. If you buy it from GNC, the lying sales trash will try to switch you to a more expensive weight loss pack so they can earn a higher commission, so don't believe them, just by the OxyElite Pro.

[lauramw71]

Laura the best way to clean your beeswax is to get a big pot of boiling water, put the beeswax in two layers of old pantyhose legs, drop in in the pot till all the beeswax melts out of the pantyhose. Dispose of the pantyhose and let the water cool down. The beeswax will harden back up when the water cools so you can just lift it out and dry it. You may need to do it a couple times, but I've found if I use the two layers of pantyhose, once is usually good enough to get 99 to 100% of the bee parts strained out with the least amount of mess. Have fun!!

Awesome thanks!!! I ruined the first batch he gave me and was scared to mess with this one! lol

[Wolverine]

Ok, I'm not trying to stir anything up and this may have already been posted on here but I wanted to share how all negative and false marketing CAN and does affect other companies. :undecided

http://www.alohabay.com/people/why_no_soy_candles.html

Well, we all have our own opinions and we must not forget, we have the First Amendment. End of story. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[CaftCandles]

Well, we all have our own opinions and we must not forget, we have the First Amendment. End of story. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Wow! Where do I begin?

Contrary to popular belief, The First Amendment is not a blank check for someone to say whatever stupid thought comes to their mind. It gives citizens the right to publically speak and or have a public voice. The First Amendment does not give ANYONE the right to defame, slander or spread false information about any person or business. The First Amendments Constitutional objections, intentions, definitions or changes made by the Supreme Court is not something I care to debate on but there are a lot of information out there about more than you ever wanted to know for your leisure reading. There are some links to the FTC Laws pertaining to what we are allowed to say as advertisements for our business in this very thread that one of our very informative members posted for everyone to use as a reference. It is good reading and if you plan to be successful in your business it would be a good idea to read and learn it. Below is an excerpt from Wiki and a Topic you may want to research before you just throw the “First Amendment” thing out there.

Commercialspeech

Commercial speech is speech done on behalf of a company or individual for the purpose of making a profit. Unlike political speech, the Supreme Court does not afford commercial speech full protection under the First Amendment. To effectively distinguish commercial speech from other types of speech for purposes of litigation, the Supreme Court uses a list of fourindicia:

1. The contents do "no more than propose a commercial transaction."
   
2. The contents may be characterized as advertisements.
   
3. The contents reference a specific product.
   
4. The disseminator is economically motivated to distribute the speech.
   

Alone, each indicium does not compel the conclusion that an instance of speech is commercial; however, "the combination of all these characteristics...provides strong support for...the conclusion that the [speech is] properly characterized as commercial speech."

Research Topic: “Defamation under common law”

[OCcandles]

When standardizing I went back and forth between Soy and palm. I ultimately selecting Palm to standardize because of many reasons but one of them was the lack of well-made “looking” candles and the vast amount of soy candle companies. I did read up on all the palm/soy/paraffin debates. It took 4 months of testing, testing, testing, and you got it more testing to get the palm candle votives up to my expectations. The shocker I had was that IGI changed palm wax vendor about 2 months ago and almost dropped dead when I got bags of new palm wax from a new manufacture and it was completely different than the original. It’s close enough so I didn’t have to change much in my candles. And you know when IGI changes wax we all do unless your big enough to go direct. (and if you were wondering what it takes to order from IGI direct, it’s 20k lbs for order, that was about 3 years ago) The new manufacture is “Britz” and I went to the site direct to see what policies they have in place and they are replacing rubber tree farms for palm. So no deforestation. I Think that is the trick though, it’s not “palm” or “soy” it’s the manufacture you buy from and what they are doing, and they all do it different.

The other contemplation I had when developing the site and product info is do I even address the deforestation with palm or palm in the past? I ultimately decided not to because when you bring light to something that doesn’t exist it makes it real nonetheless.

Here is a site that talks politics on Palm, I didn’t find it necessary to even post this on my site.

http://www.palmoiltruthfoundation.com/

~Russell

www.orangecoastcandles.com

[blacktieaffair]

Been off the board for a few days, and came back and found this thread.

The debate of which wax is "best" for the environment and for people will never be solved or even agreed upon.

I was raised that in business, yes, you stand behind your product, you produce the best that you can, you give great customer service, and you are cordial to any and all customers AND competition.

Every person has different preferences than the one sitting next to them. Each one of us owns different clothes, cars, eats different foods, believes in different religions, all because that is what we believe in.

Who are we to down, diss, malign, or try to sabatoge any one else for the choices they make or the products they use? You dont want someone attacking you for your beliefs.. why do it to others ?

[CaftCandles]

Thanks OCcandles for that website, that is a lot of information that will take a little time to read through.

(and if you were wondering what it takes to order from IGI direct, it’s 20k lbs for order, that was about 3 years ago)

BTW, IGI requires an anual purchase quantity of 24k lbs and a minimum of 1 pallet per purchase .

Edited January 24, 2012 by CaftCandles

[OCcandles]

Thanks OCcandles for that website, that is a lot of information that will take a little time to read through.

BTW, IGI requires an anual purchase quantity of 24k lbs and a minimum of 1 pallet per purchase .

Ahhhh, that sounds about right, thanks! I guess the big question would be how much do you have to order to go direct to Britz and bypass IGI?

Edited January 24, 2012 by OCcandles

[CaftCandles]

My guess would be a lot more than you can handle. Personally I would never deal directly with a foreign company in the first place. There are so many things that can go wrong and it would cost you thousands of dollars just to hunt them down not to mention what it would cost in litigation.

Here is a link to their site: http://integratedfortune.com/index.php?lang=en , a lot of wax information for those of you that use Palm wax.

Here is another link to their RSPO Company Profile: http://www.rspo.org/?q=om/1438, if anyone is interested in their commentment to sustainability.

[Stella1952]

Palm is incredibly bad for the environment

ANY cultivated crop can be bad for the environment. Soy monoculture has razed thousands and thousands of acres worldwide and is still causing environmental damage. Palm plantations are a far more diverse method of culture than a soy field!

they didn't vet their information they only used the information that supports their position

Actually, Aloha Bay DID vet their information. Although they have presented it with a certain amount of spin, their facts are straight. This is a political and economic game of the big vegetable oil companies. Palm oil and other tropical oils are wonderful, healthy oils UNTIL they are hydrogenated. Millions of people all over the world - EXCEPT in the US where Big Soy reigns supreme - have been eating palm and other tropical oils for thousands of years! Their populations are NOT dropping dead from the kinds of diseases that we were *told* eating soy would curtail; quite the reverse is true.

Big Soy sold the medical and food industry a bill of goods in the 50s about tropical oils being unhealthy and people are only now discovering they were duped in much the same manner that palm oil production is now being criticized. I have read many sides of this issue and have been following the smear campaign rather closely. It's all about MONEY and power. People who believe that palm oil is unhealthy and less environmentally damaging to cultivate than soy need to read some history and some basic dietetics. They are boycotting the WRONG products! The entire smear campaign has nothing to do with anyone caring about the environment, it's because of economic power plain and simple.

GMO soy is safe

No, it is not and neither is RoundUp. Eating GMO soybeans probably will not kill you, but the effect eating too much soy has on thyroid production, hormone production and other emerging health issues is well-documented. The phytoestrogens contained in soy do a lot of harm to human health. Soy is being put in nearly everything from beverages to canned tuna to meats to sauces to livestock feed to pet food. As a consequence, soy allergies, unheard of two generations ago, are common now. GMO crops of all kinds are a real danger to biodiversity because of the patents and economic interests - ie. MONEY and POWER. They are reducing the number of seeds available for many crops, not just soy. This is the reason for seed banks all over the world and the preservation of heirloom seeds which are not hybridized. Some of the Wikileaks US diplomatic cables revealed that the previous administration conspired to retaliate against European countries refusing to use GM seeds from Monsanto. Sorry, but this stuff is fact, not spin or opinion.

People can freely choose whatever they wish to support, but they hopefully will base their choices on verifiable facts and not hype, spin or homespun faith in companies like Monsanto, ADM, Cargill, etc. Governments work hand in hand with corporate interests for power and economic reasons which have frequently proven to be very short-sighted in their long-term effects on human and other populations of earth. Our world is complex and there are no clear "good guys" and "bad guys" because the downright EVIL people will use anyone to further their power hungry agendas.

Palm wax is a good product. It does not require chemical separation (hexane) of the oil from the fruit as does soy wax. It does not require nearly the same amount of energy to produce as does either paraffin or soy wax. The mere fact that it IS a very good product is the best reason of all for the paraffin and soy wax interests to want to see its market curtailed.

[001]

Palm plantations occupy the most biologically diverse areas in the world outside of the barrier reefs. When they cut these areas down and plant a single crop of oil palm, eliminating all other plants, no it is not a biologically diverse way of farming.

GMO soy is safe, in the same way sugar is safe. If you eat some of it it is fine, a lot of it is bad. Same with palm, palm is primarily a saturated fat, a lot of it is bad for you, and I never said palm was bad for people, only the places and animal's habitat they occupy.

They didn't vet their information. Here are a few things they claim that are demonstrably false.

"Soy farming supports US jobs" - Misleading! (it supports my job!)

Soy requires annual tilling and crop rotation (No till is very popular right now)

Tree farms protect local wildlife - the higher the biodiversity the greater stability of the ecosystem. (this is true but is actually misleading, palm plantations are not the same as a "tree farm" which are primarily for timber)

"Soy candles help small family owned US farmers" - The opposite is true. (soy does help small family owned US farms)

"Soy Candles help the U.S. Economy" - Misleading (it is true, we're selling them within the US contributing to the economy, and keeping the profits within our boarders most of the time)

"Soy candles don't put your health in jeopardy" - We strongly disagree. (soy candles are not a health hazard)

"Soy wax costs less" - False! (well this is true, soy wax does cost less)

They also claim that soy destroys the rainforest when palm (and beef production) causes far more. It is more profitable now to produce the soy on American soil.

Product costs are almost always directly related to the energy cost involved with it. There is a reason that the easy to extract, highly productive oil costs a lot of money... they have to ship it from all over the world. When they use local soy, the energy costs are considerably lower. If it were true that it uses less energy it would be cheaper, much cheaper.

Edited January 24, 2012 by 001

[Stella1952]

They didn't vet their information. Here are a few things they claim that are demonstrably false.

"Soy farming supports US jobs" - Misleading! (it supports my job!)

Soy requires annual tilling and crop rotation (No till is very popular right now)

Tree farms protect local wildlife - the higher the biodiversity the greater stability of the ecosystem. (this is true but is actually misleading, palm plantations are not the same as a "tree farm" which are primarily for timber)

"Soy candles help small family owned US farmers" - The opposite is true. (soy does help small family owned US farms)

"Soy Candles help the U.S. Economy" - Misleading (it is true, we're selling them within the US contributing to the economy, and keeping the profits within our boarders most of the time)

"Soy candles don't put your health in jeopardy" - We strongly disagree. (soy candles are not a health hazard)

"Soy wax costs less" - False! (well this is true, soy wax does cost less)

The discussion was about the Aloha Bay Candle Company speaking out about the anti-palm smear campaign and the lies of Big Soy

(found here as posted by the OP) which was a well vetted discussion.

[001]

And those quotes you quoted are direct quotes from the link you posted. They did not check the information they posted (they are lies), therefore it was not vetted. And the counter points they made about palm are misleading at best... lies in my opinion. Same with their opinion on soy, just lies.

Orangs are dying off/being killed currently at around 5,000/year and the major Orang rescues pick up one orang per day on average that was orphaned or attacked by the workers. They hack them with machetes or shoot them because they are a pest and they are afraid of them. They've even been known to set them on fire. A lot of workers are migrant workers from java or sumatra and don't even know how to deal with them, (or ever seen one) so they attempt to kill them.

It is also more profitable for them to cut down forests and sell off the timber before planting their palm (cuts down startup by 30-40%) and 300 acres per hour are still being cut down in their native rainforest habitat... All for palm oil.

[Whisper Girl]

001 - just curious - have you actually been to these palm plantations/farms or just read about them?

[001]

I haven't been yet. I hope to get there at the end of this year or early 2013 but I work with a conservation group who rescues Orangutans and currently houses 600 of them. The biggest problem is finding a month without anything major going on...

[Whisper Girl]

Great - have a wonderful time. I hope the donations that you have been sending to them have been used for the purposes that they have professed. I will be here just making my candles. I am sorry, but I just do not agree with your opinions. I do agree with your right to have them.

[001]

They're not opinions they are facts. My choice is to not use palm. My opinion is that palm should not be used. My opinions are based on the above facts.

[Whisper Girl]

What you consider facts are not what I consider facts. But having read this thread for sometime, I can see that you are not open to any of the facts that have been presented by other parties. I will continue to make my palm candles. You continue to make your soy candles. I do not like soy, but I have no problem with you making them.

[001]

The death of the Orangs is well documented, the deforestation is obvious, and the reason is clear. Palm... Now if you don't value the forests or orangs or the other animals that previously lived on those stretches of land that is fine, and you have that right but to say that these facts are opinions is like saying 2+2=4 is an opinion.

[KrazeKelly]

Just read this today. It was posted by a German Shepherd group I follow on Facebook. This is really making me rethink my use of palm. Very sad!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2092722/Pregnant-orang-utan-hugs-daughter-bounty-hunters-Borneo-in.html

[rjdaines]

Everything we do to or take from the Earth impacts the environment and it's inhabitants, whether we use paraffin, soy, or palm it costs something. Forests and habitat are cleared for both soy and palm. US sourced soy that is used for oil/wax and not food is compensated for by foreign sourced soy (South America). So even using so-called sustainable US soy still has an impact on rainforests and other habitats. Paraffin is produced from crude oil and we all know the impact crude oil has on the environment. It's all depressing when we focus on how humans are "changing" the world and affecting it's other inhabitants, both plant and animal.