Wicking question

[jonsie]

I am slowly, bit by bit, learning about wicking, and the more I learn, the more I realize just how much there is out there that I don't understand.

I've been making candles for over a year using wooden wicks, so my wicking process was simplified to sizing the one type of wooden wick I used for the container and FO. If data such as ROC, Flame Height, Pool Diameter, etc. was ever published for the wooden wicks, I was never aware of it. So I've been blissfully unaware of other options.

Now I'm trying to offer my scents with corded wicks, and the process is slow. I have a large metro (270 g) and a medium metro (200 g) of the same wax/EO mix burning side by side this past week. The large had a CDN 16, and the medium had an ACS 5.5. Both lit and extinguished at the same time.

After 67 hours of burning, the large is DONE. In my limited opinion, it did a good job of not mushrooming (I never trimmed it), and of melting the wax and I hardly had FMPs, even after long power burns. Pretty much all of the wax is consumed although the container looks filmy. I would happily sell this candle based on these results.

The medium has performed just as well as the large with no mushrooming, minimal FMPs, consuming most of the wax along the container walls although its flame is smaller. I would be satisfied to sell this candle also. And it is still burning.

The fact that the medium is burning longer than the large is a surprise for me, and I'm trying to wrap my brain around this. I don't know of any published data on the ACS wicks so no help there. But I guess my question is this: is it typical for the large and the medium candle to burn for about the same length of time, or should the large burn longer than the medium?

[robertgibbens]

If you used the same wicks, I would expect the same burn rate and therefore, the more burn time for the larger container. But there is so much involved. Container shape has a lot to do with how hot the wax gets and how quickly it is consumed. I dont think you can really compare candles with different wicks. I'm sure with enough experience it is possible, but that may be time consuming!

[Ravens]

Sorry, I may have missed it, but what type of wax are you using?

[jonsie]

Thanks for checking, the wax is GW464.

It's true, so many factors are involved. For my two jars, the diameters are different, the depths are different, and yup, the wicks are different, so I'm now understanding assumptions can't be made on overall burn time.

Although the ROCs for each wick might have been different, maybe the ROC-to-volume ratio was very close for these two candles? I've never heard of such a thing, but when I consider it that way, I seem to understand it better.

Is it any wonder that I dream about candles and wicking. I think too friggin much about this stuff for my health.

[Ravens]

Well, I can tell you what I think you should avoid. Don't drive yourself crazy by doing what I did in the past. if one container didn't work, I'd change it. The wick wouldn't work, and I'd change that; then I'd change fragrances.... what a disaster!

Someone here (I believe it was Stella) mentioned that a candle is a system. Finally it dawned on me to put some order to the madness. I focused on: one wax, one container, one scent. I burned my chosen wax in the container I was planning on using, without adding any FO, just the wick. Once I got a good burn, then I started playing the one FO, one at a time. I gave up on soy - it just drove me nuts trying to wick it correctly, lol Strictly paraffin for me; not as finicky.... but it still requires testing and good notes keeping. HTH and good luck!

[spark-me-up]

I think the Acs wick probably produced a slightly smaller flame & so it would slow down the consumption of the wax & therefor burn longer.

You are a brave woman, taking corded wicks on... they have nearly cost me my sanity & I am envious you have had "saleable" success so swiftly!!!

Good on you

[Stella1952]

Jonsie, I have a question. Are you testing your candles with EOs or FOs? I remember you were having inconsistent results with your EOs...

As far as the wicks, I use a CDN 14 in the 12 oz. Metro/Status and a CDN 12 in the 8 oz. with good success in nearly all the fragrances I've tested with NatureWax C3. I am not familiar with "corded wicks" - I read about the Atkins & Pearce ones at WicksUnlimited but I didn't really read anything in their description that would make me wanna jump ship or even test them since I am satisfied with the performance I get from CDNs... Even though I use a larger size wick in the larger size container, there is more wax in it so it burns longer. I hope that makes sense...

[EricofAZ]

Ravens, that is good advice. I finally had to do the same, go back to basics with one container, one wax and then I started adding FO. Now if I blend, I'm pretty close in guessing what wick will work with the blend because I know what each separate wax will like in a known container.

Jonsie, do you keep notes? A spreadsheet? I'm sure you have Excel or Quattro Pro or something like that.

I use the tabs at the bottom for each container/mould. One tab is for 3x4 pillar and another for the victorian 11 oz container, etc. In the spreadsheet the left four columns have my wick name/size - ROC - FH - MP. The top row after the three mentioned has my wax choice. One column in the row per wax choice. I have info in the top row about wax characteristics. Then the body of the spreadsheet is just notes. If I select the box that is a particular wax (column) and a particular wick (row) then I make notes.

Sadly, going to a 4th dimension is not easy to do in spreadsheets, so adding FO's or color just goes in my notes.

Hope that helps focus you, it helped me focus on what I was doing.

[jonsie]

Someone here (I believe it was Stella) mentioned that a candle is a system.

I remember reading that here before but it never really sunk in until now. I WANT to apply logic to this, I want candles to behave like a mathematical formula. Before I became a mom I was a mechanical engineer and I loved how nature could be described with numbers. I keep trying to make candles behave like a formula, and it's just not that easy!

I think the Acs wick probably produced a slightly smaller flame & so it would slow down the consumption of the wax & therefor burn longer.

You are a brave woman, taking corded wicks on... they have nearly cost me my sanity & I am envious you have had "saleable" success so swiftly!!!

Good on you

I think you are right, it is a smaller flame and lower consumption. I bet I could find an ACS that would work for my larger candle and probably get a longer average burn time. As for doing this 'swiftly'... lol, not sure about that It takes me about three to four weeks to zero in on a wick that does what I want it to do. Maybe that is too quick?

Jonsie, I have a question. Are you testing your candles with EOs or FOs? I remember you were having inconsistent results with your EOs...

I started off using wooden wicks in soy with FOs, but as people came to my market stall they wanted essential oils and could take or leave the wooden wicks. So I'm shifting from wooden wicks to what I call "corded wicks" which I guess are really just "wicks" (CDNs, HTPs, etc.). I've been calling them corded wicks to differentiate from the wooden wicks, and I didn't mean to make it sound like any kind of specialty wick.

I have had some inconsistencies with the Pink Grapefruit EO so I'm going very slow with that one. But so far things have gone well with Lavender EO and Lemongrass EO, and I'm slowly hacking away at Patchouli EO (I've got the medium done). I'm looking forward to getting started with Rose Geranium, but I want to finish up Patch first. And the wick that works with the Lavender medium is vastly different than the one for the Patch medium, and goes to show how each new EO is a brand new challenge.

Jonsie, do you keep notes? A spreadsheet? I'm sure you have Excel or Quattro Pro or something like that.

Sure do It is a massive beast of data. I'm just now realizing I could probably separate my research and testing data from my production data to make it easier on myself. And LOL about the 4th dimension, I feel the same way.

Hope that helps focus you, it helped me focus on what I was doing.

Thanks Eric, and thanks everyone. I realize I ask some pretty far-out questions that must drive y'all nuts, but I really, really want to understand and anticipate how these candles will behave. So when something doesn't make immediate sense to me like the burn rates of those two candles, you can bet I'll be back here. Just ignore me if I get to be too much

[Stella1952]

shifting from wooden wicks to what I call "corded wicks" which I guess are really just "wicks" (CDNs, HTPs, etc.). I've been calling them corded wicks to differentiate from the wooden wicks, and I didn't mean to make it sound like any kind of specialty wick.

Ahhhh... I understand now. Obviously a difference in lingo...

goes to show how each new EO is a brand new challenge.

Yep. And each new batch you purchase will be, too. The inconsistency in crops, for example, can have a big effect on the performance of the EO in a candle system... ANY impurities or differences will show their ugly side to a wick. The commercial grades of EOs are not as consistent as are the medicinal grades. While this may not be too annoying when scenting lotions or incense or tarts, it can be a MAJOR PITA when wicking a candle, as you have discovered.

Making melts and tarts with EOs makes all kinds of sense, but for me, making candles with them was not cost effective, in both labor and material cost. I happily use them in soaps and other products but not in candles. Even though people may ask for essential oil scented candles, are they willing to pay the price for them? In many retail markets, the answer is no. In some markets - upscale spa and decor places, sure. The question is, where are you marketing your candles and how much will your customers pay? If they are willing to meet your price, great. Rock on. But if they are not, think long and hard before you put much more time and materials into something that you may not be able to justify economically.

[jonsie]

The inconsistency in crops, for example, can have a big effect on the performance of the EO in a candle system.

Very true. And the difference in suppliers too. It can mean the difference in a couple of wick sizes.

Making melts and tarts with EOs makes all kinds of sense, but for me, making candles with them was not cost effective, in both labor and material cost. I happily use them in soaps and other products but not in candles. Even though people may ask for essential oil scented candles, are they willing to pay the price for them? In many retail markets, the answer is no. In some markets - upscale spa and decor places, sure. The question is, where are you marketing your candles and how much will your customers pay? If they are willing to meet your price, great. Rock on. But if they are not, think long and hard before you put much more time and materials into something that you may not be able to justify economically.

All of my FO candles are at a flat rate. All of my EO candles will be priced individually. I understand individual pricing is a pita, but the customers at this particular market have already shown they are savvy enough to understand why. As for these customers, they are mostly professionals who don't like artificial colors or ingredients, prefer slow food, organic, you get the picture. I don't sell my products as organic or natural, but they seem to know I'm not there to screw them. All in all, I feel confident this is the right thing for me to do with this market and my candle product development. However, if I was 10 miles out in any direction it would be a different story.