How to deal with temperature variations during testing

[robertgibbens]

How do you guys deal with wicking a candle that may be burned in a 70 degree house one day and a 50 degree house another day? I am finding excellent MP results during my morning test burns (where the air temp in 75 to 80 degrees) and then not getting FMP results during my evening test burn when the temp is 70 to 75 degrees. It got me thinking that if someone from New Hampshire bought a candle here, brought it home and started burning it in December, it would likely not burn to the edge. Up wicking would smoke more and burn too fast. Wondering how you guys deal with this issue?

[Stella1952]

I am finding excellent MP results during my morning test burns (where the air temp in 75 to 80 degrees) and then not getting FMP results during my evening test burn when the temp is 70 to 75 degrees.

You did not mention what type of wax, the length of the test burn period or whether you are comparing the first burns at one time to the first burns at the other time, etc. Typically, I do not look for a FMP on the first burn with soy-based candles, sometimes even the second test burn. With palm wax candles, it may not happen until during the last half of the container! The wax makes a difference. I haven't found there is a significant difference between burning my candles at 70°F and 80°F... I see a bigger difference between 65°F and 85°F, but it is not appreciable enough for me to change the wicking of the candle. The candle simply burns a little more quickly (total hours, slightly higher RoC) in higher temps. Simply watching the MP is only one factor of testing. What is the RoC (rate of consumption per hour)? Are you weighing the candles before and after the test to determine this?

You have to shoot for an average. When you sell a candle, your literature should recommend conditions (including the temperature range, which should be average room temperature in your area) in which the candle is engineered to burn best. If people do not follow the instructions, whacha gonna do? Average room temp for most people is NOT 50°F... nor is it 85°F (unless you live in my house LOL) Somewhere between 68°-78° is about average for most of the country.

Higher elevations affect the burn, as well as high humidity and high temps, or low temps. Because I live in a high temp, high humidity area that is barely above sea level, I would not expect my candles to perform exactly the same for my friends who live in the Rockies in Canada during the winter! I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but my candles are mainly sold to customers who live in the same area as I do - the deep south. Down here, people are not interested in burning candles as much in the summer when even the sight of a flame makes one feel hotter... Sales here pick up dramatically in the fall & winter months.

I have not received any complaints from the few customers in northern climes who have bought candles from me, so I assume everything went satisfactorily or they would not reorder. I haven't sold any in Alaska yet or to an equatorial area, so who knows... but I am not going to worry about it until I need to do so. HTH

[robertgibbens]

Thanks for the reply. I am testing both IGI4630 and Eco Soya Advanced. My burns are between 3 and 4 hours (3 for 3 inch containers and 4 for 4 inch). I usually burn at least 3 to 5 times. ROC of 0.1 to 0.15 are the norm for HTP62 through HTP93 for the soy. Slightly faster for the paraffin, but not over 0.17 oz./hr. The tables I have seen show anticipated ROC's for the wicks I am using at almost twice what I measure.

This far I have been accepting the test burn with the smallest wick that just burns to the edge. I think I may rethink that and go with the wick that burns to the edge with a flame that is not too big and that does not flicker. What do you think?

[Stella1952]

usually burn at least 3 to 5 times

Do you mean you do 3-5 test burns before the candle is finished or you stop at 3-5 burns regardless of whether the candle has burned all the way to the end?

ROC of 0.1 to 0.15 are the norm for HTP62 through HTP93 for the soy

Again, I am confused. Are you saying that the RoC above is what you computed from data from the test burns you conducted or did you read somewhere that that is the "norm"?

The tables I have seen show anticipated ROC's for the wicks I am using at almost twice what I measure.

The tables you have seen may have been based on tests conducted with paraffin wax and not soy wax. BIG difference. Tables may be interesting to read, but they have dubious value when testing one's own candle system. For your data to match, you would have to use the exact same ingredients and amounts, container and wick for the candle and conduct your test under the exact same conditions as existed during the test from which the table data was derived. Even then, there could be discrepancies...

This far I have been accepting the test burn with the smallest wick that just burns to the edge. I think I may rethink that and go with the wick that burns to the edge with a flame that is not too big and that does not flicker. What do you think?

Robert, I don't see what all this has to do with your original question about temperature fluctuations... I am not sure that you understand what you are looking for in testing - I'm SURE that I don't understand what you are looking for... The way a paraffin candle ideally burns is somewhat different from a soy wax candle. My best suggestion is for you to read up on the waxes you are using and what one is looking for in testing these waxes...

[coconut]

I settle the problem of lower temperatures by using a candle topper. It keeps the heat in and gets a melt pool at lower temps.

[robertgibbens]

I know exactly what I am looking for during my burns. I am very very well read and in the process of becoming well practiced. Not sure why you would say you dont understand what all this has to do with my original question when you asked all the questions I responded to??? I believe my responses were pretty easy to understand yet you seem not to understand any of them. Oh well. I'll figure it out. No worries.

[robertgibbens]

By the way, how is it one could not know what their looking for in testing a candle? For both paraffin and soy, were looking for the smallest wick that produces the most scent throw with a FMP and a flame that is stable. This is not rocket science after all.

[chuck_35550]

It doesn't fly. You're jar configuration is changing the results not the ambient temp. The wax burns down into the container and you must be losing efficiency. Try another wick. How could any major mfg sell a candle if they had to factor in ambient conditions? You might get a slight decrease in efficiency and or flickering but not a major loss and if the container is wicked right, the candle ought to catch up by the end of the burn. IMHO

Steve

[Pam W]

It doesn't fly. You're jar configuration is changing the results not the ambient temp. The wax burns down into the container and you must be losing efficiency. Try another wick. How could any major mfg sell a candle if they had to factor in ambient conditions? You might get a slight decrease in efficiency and or flickering but not a major loss and if the container is wicked right, the candle ought to catch up by the end of the burn. IMHO

Steve

Ambient temps can and DO make a difference in the burn. I'm in the SW desert and depending on the season/temps, my candles burn differently - both pillars and containers. Since I don't sell anything across state lines, I wick for the temps in my area. I do send a few pillars to Colorado but I haven't had any complaints about the burn but that could be because the ones I send to CO are freebies.......lol.

[chuck_35550]

I could see a difference in altitude but a few degrees in temp isn't going to greatly affect much of anything. So you can only burn candles during certain seasons in the desert? You got it made with no humidity. Shoot, that would be a piece of cake compared to 150% hot humid southern stuff. The temp inside of most people's homes are kept constant, unless you turn on overhead fans in the shank of the day. Stella tests her candles outside, don't you Stella? She stinks up the whole neighborhood year round. jk. I still say, try another wick.

[jonsie]

Since I only have a few available brain cells right now, I'm going to focus on your original question. Sorry if I attempt to explain concepts you are already familiar with; in some ways I'm offering my own explanations here to see if anyone can let me know if I am wrong. I still have a lot to learn about wicking.

How do you guys deal with wicking a candle that may be burned in a 70 degree house one day and a 50 degree house another day? I am finding excellent MP results during my morning test burns (where the air temp in 75 to 80 degrees) and then not getting FMP results during my evening test burn when the temp is 70 to 75 degrees. It got me thinking that if someone from New Hampshire bought a candle here, brought it home and started burning it in December, it would likely not burn to the edge. Up wicking would smoke more and burn too fast. Wondering how you guys deal with this issue?

I get similar results as you do. I could get a FMP when burning in a room 70 - 75 F, but when I powerburn during the night and the temp drops to 60 F (it's Winter here right now), I don't get a FMP. Same wick, same candle, nothing changed, just the temperature of the room.

The idea of having to account for the temperature preferences of every customer started to give me fits. Then it occured to me that if, say, Mr. Smith prefers burning his candles in a 60 F room, then my candle will likely perform much the same way any other candle that Mr. Smith has burned recently. Chances are my candle will have plenty of overhang and wasted wax in the jar, but pretty much any other candle Mr. Smith burns would likely do the same thing. I take a lot of reassurance from that.

Now I'm not sure if you were asking how to go about engineering a candle, but this has been on my mind a lot lately so I'm gonna write out as I've seen it so far. I'm aware of two approaches (there may be more, not counting the "Don't Give A Damn" approach): 1) Clean the glass as you burn, and 2) Wick For The Second Half of Your Container.

Clean The Glass As You Burn would mean a hotter burning wick and FMP within the first couple of burns (or even hours). Visually, this is preferred because it appears like the wax isn't getting wasted, and some people like to see the flame as it burns down into the container. The risk, and I may be wrong about this, is that the consumption of your wick won't be as fast as the consumption of your wax, causing mushrooms and an excess of wick rolling back over into your melt pool, thereby resulting in a bad flame up. You would be putting the burden on your customer to be diligent about trimming their wick.

Wick For The Second Half of Your Container would mean being ok with your candle not reach FMP for the first couple of burns. And if I understand wicking correctly, you may even get some mushrooming during these first burns since there isn't enough wax to feed the wick. As your candle burns down into the second half of your container, the temperature around the flame increases since it isn't vented as much as it was towards the top. This melts the wax at a faster rate and allows whatever overhang remaining to disappear. As your wax melts faster, the rate at which the wick consumes the wax increases, and ideally there would be no mushroom because there wouldn't be any excess wick. And with minimal excess wick, then the customer doesn't have to trim it as much (if at all).

I could be completely wrong about this stuff, but that's how it's been coming together in my head. Anyway, I hope some of the veterans can clarify things for me.

Good luck!

[Stella1952]

Stella tests her candles outside, don't you Stella?

I burn candles outside, but I don't perform wick testing there. When it's below about 55°F, they begin to struggle significantly. I do powerburns outside when the weather is fair and the wind is calm. Burning on the porch is how I know that a 10°F swing between 70° and 80° is not going to make much difference in the scheme of things. The candle had better perform reliably in that range because that is the normal indoor temp range for most people.

She stinks up the whole neighborhood year round.

Guilty as charged and nolo contendre! It's my own little neighborhood improvement project to compete with the pig farm down the road. :laugh2: (yer killin' me here, Steve!!)

I don't know how paraffin candles should burn because I don't use or make them. The OP is not testing palm wax, so I'm leaving that out, too. My remarks pertain to soy candles only - not parasoy - just regular ol' soy wax candles.

I'm aware of two approaches ... 1) Clean the glass as you burn, and 2) Wick For The Second Half of Your Container.

There IS a safety aspect here that should be considered first and not behind HT or clean jars... Wicking for the last half of the container insures a clean jar AND one that does not become too hot to handle, while still getting a great HT and a long, slow burn.

Soy wax candles "catch up" by the last half of the container. It is unacceptable for there to be hangup at the end of a candle which has been burned correctly (ie, not in a snowstorm, not in a hurricane, not directly under a ceiling fan, etc.).

The flame should not flicker or flutter or dance; nor should it be so puny as to threaten to wink out! If it does, soot and smoke will result at the very least. The flame should not be a torch for obvious reasons. There IS a happy medium and that's what I shoot for and I don't stop until I get it. The idea is to balance all the important aspects of a good burn.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Stella1952

[coconut]

I definitely go for wicking for the second half of the jar, even though I do paraffin and not soy. The preblends I use seem to burn very much like soy from what I read except you use larger wicks for soy. I even use wicks made for soy sometimes. The soft preblends will also catch up. And yes, temperature makes a big difference, especially in small jars. I too burn outside sometimes and stink up the neighborhood! I also pour candles outside, hoowee! I have learned that if it is very warm out, over 85, candles burn too hot. Under 70, not much burn unless I use a capper or put it inside a glass enclosure. I wick for the way people live here, in the air conditioning, 70-84 degrees. And I try to use the smallest wick to get an ideal burn.

Consider this: my tester knocked over one of my burning candles onto herself. She was thrilled, because the melted wax did not burn her and did not leave a big red welt like when she knocks over a Yank** candle. I guess she knocks over a lot of lit candles! She also remarked that she could pick up one of my burning candle containers and carry it around and it was not too hot to touch. I always assume the customer will abuse the product and make it safe under as many conditions as possible. I assume they won't trim the wick, ever, that they will powerburn it, they will forget to put it out, and that they will carry it around. Of course, it takes a long time to test each scent and get it this perfect, so I have a limited selection. I would rather have a candle that does not melt all the wax when it is cold out, than one that has too large a flame in the heat, just in case someone does burn one outside when it is warm. Like I said, in the cold you can use a topper and get a good burn. Best of luck with your testing.

[robertgibbens]

I would love to burn/test outside, but the trade winds here are blowing nearly every day!

[Stella1952]

the trade winds here are blowing nearly every day!

Ahhhhh, I wish I had that problem!!! Somehow, I know I could find a way to cope!!! :laugh2:

I live way too far away from the BIG water to suit me!! *sigh*

Does the wind die down at sundown? If so, there ya go!!

[robertgibbens]

Yes, it certainly dies down. Unfortunately it dies from 15 to 20 mph during the day to 5 to 10 mph! Try not to feel to sorry for me...

[HorseScentS]

I definitely go for wicking for the second half of the jar, even though I do paraffin and not soy. The preblends I use seem to burn very much like soy from what I read except you use larger wicks for soy. I even use wicks made for soy sometimes. The soft preblends will also catch up. And yes, temperature makes a big difference, especially in small jars. I too burn outside sometimes and stink up the neighborhood! I also pour candles outside, hoowee! I have learned that if it is very warm out, over 85, candles burn too hot. Under 70, not much burn unless I use a capper or put it inside a glass enclosure. I wick for the way people live here, in the air conditioning, 70-84 degrees. And I try to use the smallest wick to get an ideal burn.

Consider this: my tester knocked over one of my burning candles onto herself. She was thrilled, because the melted wax did not burn her and did not leave a big red welt like when she knocks over a Yank** candle. I guess she knocks over a lot of lit candles! She also remarked that she could pick up one of my burning candle containers and carry it around and it was not too hot to touch. I always assume the customer will abuse the product and make it safe under as many conditions as possible. I assume they won't trim the wick, ever, that they will powerburn it, they will forget to put it out, and that they will carry it around. Of course, it takes a long time to test each scent and get it this perfect, so I have a limited selection. I would rather have a candle that does not melt all the wax when it is cold out, than one that has too large a flame in the heat, just in case someone does burn one outside when it is warm. Like I said, in the cold you can use a topper and get a good burn. Best of luck with your testing.

Do you use zincs? Are the self-trimming HTP wicks safer? The reason I ask is I very stupidly fell asleep before extinguishing my new 20 oz tureen candle last night, and I was planning to extinguish it at 2:00 AM because it would have been burning for 4 hours by that time, but I fell asleep and woke up at 5:00 AM. Both of the 62z wicks had huge flames and the rim of the jar was super hot. If I'm stupid enough to do that, I'm sure many customers would be too. So, I'm wondering if the only safe way to wick a candle is with a self-trimming HTP wick. Or, would an HTP wick have flopped over into the melt pool and ignited all the wax?

[HorseScentS]

Oh, okay, never mind, I just Googled it and read that the self-trimming wicks are not really self-trimming, they just curl and double-over, and they still need to be trimmed or they can get too long and make a big dangerous flame too.

[Stella1952]

'm wondering if the only safe way to wick a candle is with a self-trimming HTP wick

No - you could wick it with a self-trimming CD or CDN or any of several other types of wicks that are engineered to self-trim... Zinc wicks are not the first choice for soy candles...

Don't feel bad - I have fallen asleep waiting for tests to complete, too.

[HorseScentS]

No - you could wick it with a self-trimming CD or CDN or any of several other types of wicks that are engineered to self-trim... Zinc wicks are not the first choice for soy candles...

Don't feel bad - I have fallen asleep waiting for tests to complete, too.

Thanks, Stella. I know you power burn your candles to test them, and I wondered how you guys can do that and not fall asleep sometimes.

[Stella1952]

I know you power burn your candles to test them, and I wondered how you guys can do that and not fall asleep sometimes.

I don't do a powerburn until AFTER I have made my wick selection. The powerburn is just a "check" to make sure it won't become a torch if the customer doesn't pay attention... I think your candle may have flunked...

When I powerburn, I start early, stay up late and set the candle in a big flat pan of sand (or inside a big oversized hurricane with sand in the bottom) so that if the worst happens, the sand will slurp up all the melted wax and hopefully nothing will catch on fire. I'm touchy on the subject of fire, having lost my home to it 18 years ago, so I try not to take chances... Even so, I mess up sometimes anyway... fell asleep once while testing a 3 wick heart pillar set on top of the television. I overwicked it, it blew out, tunneled like a coal miner and overflowed the weenie little dish I had it sitting in, dripped and splattered down the front of the television and all over the floor. Did I mention it was red palm wax? When I awoke, 2 of the wicks had self-extinguished and one was dying down... they had had such fun while I was snoozing... The soot on the wax told the story of how high the flames were... I had only fallen asleep for less than an hour... It doesn't take long! I was lucky that there was nothing flammable anywhere around it!!! I didn't test on top of the television again...

So be careful when you're testing!! And, ya might wanna try a smaller wick in that 20 oz. tureen...

[robertgibbens]

Has know one ever heard of an alarm clock??? I'll either set the alarm to wake and blow the candles out or set it to wake and light the candle 4 hours before I wake up. My HTP wicks are relatively self trimming. I seldom have to trim them, except for the 104 and up sized.

[jonsie]

Do the HTPs curl in a set direction? Seems I read somewhere that their curl can't be predicted. Is that true?

[Karen M]

I agree try another wick, the differences in temp and humidity do affect your candle but I don't think it will be a major factor when you burn it all the way.

[Stella1952]

Has know one ever heard of an alarm clock?

If I'd have know I was gonna fall asleep, I would have set one LOL