Taper terminations and safety from fire

[EricofAZ]

Ok, so, my tapers have a wick that goes to the end and no tab. I burned one to the end in a wooden taper holder and not quite all the way, I had to put it out at bedtime. I thought it might light the wood on fire if I let it go long enough (wick was leaning against the wood at the end).

I burned another in a plastic holder tonight and sure enough, at the end it melted the plastic and lit the rim on fire. Looked like a bit of a firestarter.

How are all y'all terminating your taper burns? End caps? I've never seen these, but there should be some to buy somewhere. Drill into the bottom to cut the wick short?

[Stella1952]

First, I NEVER burn a candle in a holder or container that is not fireproof. There are brass inserts one can buy to put in taper candle holders to reduce the fire risk.

[Scented]

Plastic + flame = fire

Wood + flame = fire

Typically more taper holders are made of metal.

You might be able to cut the wick shorter before finishing off your candle, but that's going to depend on how you make it. In a mold, you would still need to sustain the wick and keep the tension on it until it is setting up. If you're dipping, well you might be able to form a blob of wax at the bottom of it where there is no wick into a base. I know people can buy a shaper for the base of tapers.

I couldn't tell you of a contraption to make though. I would just snip the wick once most of the candle has set up and then finish off with wax.

[EricofAZ]

All good points. Remember my testing philosophy, I test for abuse. The local stores all sell tons of plastic and wood holders. The wood came from Walmart right next to the Better Homes and Gardens warmers.

So the brass insert is probably what I'm looking for. Any ideas where to find them?

[Scented]

Dear God smack those sellers upside the head for selling plastic especially.

The wood ones should be lined with a brass or metal inlay. Smack those people for not selling ones with that.

OK so are you talking the brass cups then? If so, there are some on eBay and there are other things w/ that seller too. http://shop.ebay.com/items/brass%20candle%20cups?_dmd=1&_sop=12&rvr_id=133676686810&keyword=brass+candle+cups&crlp=5255611444_1&MT_ID=69&tt_encode=raw&adgroup_id=791413834

or maybe: http://www.nationalartcraft.com/subcategory.asp?gid=5&cid=109&scid=239

[Scented]

or are you talking this?

http://windowcandles.com/beta/product.php?catID=239

[Stella1952]

I have ones that look like this:

http://www.nationalartcraft.com/subcategory.asp?gid=5&cid=109&scid=239

or this:

http://www.amazon.com/Brass-Candle-Used-Making-Projects/dp/B000MVHOKQ

They are a brass cup with a bottom, not simply a sleeve.

And if a candle is really overwicked and hot, the wood will get toasted anyway, but it probably won't catch on fire. I have some old carved wood candlesticks that got a little overdone burning tapers many years ago.

[ksranch]

Dear God smack those sellers upside the head for selling plastic especially.

The wood ones should be lined with a brass or metal inlay. Smack those people for not selling ones with that.

OK so are you talking the brass cups then? If so, there are some on eBay and there are other things w/ that seller too. http://shop.ebay.com/items/brass%20candle%20cups?_dmd=1&_sop=12&rvr_id=133676686810&keyword=brass+candle+cups&crlp=5255611444_1&MT_ID=69&tt_encode=raw&adgroup_id=791413834

or maybe: http://www.nationalartcraft.com/subcategory.asp?gid=5&cid=109&scid=239

Scented, so do you think if I used a brass candle cup like the one in the ebay link here I would be safe to insert it in something like this? Of coarse, I would test deligently before selling, but I'm trying to figure out a way to offer these peices personally engraved and safe for a candle holder - I can drill out the space for the candle holder... what do you think?

[Scented]

I think you should test them. I have never used them, but what they look like to me is an old pop top or twist off top ... tell me I'm wrong, but if I'm not, I wouldn't think it would necessarily work.

[ksranch]

oh, concerned me too - just trying to figure out a way to incorporate the wood stuff... maybe not! Thanks!

[EricofAZ]

Stella, you are awesome, those brass ones on amazon for $15/100 might just be the ticket!

[Stella1952]

I purchased some (like the brass cup insert in the links) many years ago with the idea of using them to insert into cypress driftwood candleholder projects. I made a few to test but the unresolved problem of removing the inevitable drips that fall onto the driftwood (the "showier" the driftwood, the more difficult to remove drips) caused this project to be abandoned in the prototype phase.

My very best suggestion is to avoid using any flammable material as a candleholder - ie. wood, coconut halves, bamboo, webwood, loofah, plastic, resin, etc. While one may find the risk of making such a project for personal use an acceptable one, I personally would not want to accept the risk for selling candleholders made from a flammable material to the general public. Projects like this DO look mondo cool, BUT, the risk is huge. I know we see these kinds of things all the time at import shops, etc., but understand that many people do not ever light the candles placed in the holders, but simply use these as decorative items. My mom had some drippy lookin' wooden candles to insert in flammable decorative bases. They looked very nice but were SNUP items, IMHO. (SNUP = serves no useful purpose). If real candles were inserted, the temptation to burn them at some point is very great (power outages, excessive consumption of wine, etc.). Best defense is no be there.

[EricofAZ]

I think we're off track. I'm not making or using candle holders. I'm trying to make an absolutely dripless taper for weddings and they are carved tapers.

In the test burn process, I noticed termination burn issues. I have no idea what kind of candle holder the customers will use. They are probably going to use whatever is available in the church where they get married (which I would think to be metal), but I don't know. So I want my cut/curl taper to be as safe as possible when it goes out the door.

I want the burn to terminate before it becomes a problem.

Maybe those glass beads on the wick? I know I can use lead crimped on the wick at a strategic place to terminate the flame, but I would prefer not to introduce lead to the candle.

Edited June 20, 2011 by EricofAZ

[Scented]

oh, concerned me too - just trying to figure out a way to incorporate the wood stuff... maybe not! Thanks!

Other thing is if your tapers do spring a leak, I see that being a way to have a wax fountain. I'd rather have it build on my candle than be all over my table.

[Stella1952]

I know I can use lead crimped on the wick at a strategic place to terminate the flame, but I would prefer not to introduce lead to the candle.

Now that's an idea. I used to make my own leaders when fishing. I bought little metal sleeves (tubes) that I crimped on the line to hold the leader loop closed. They looked like these:

http://www.overstockbait.com/category_s/770.htm

You can choose from brass, copper plated, aluminum & copper in varying sizes.

Here's a site I found along the way which tells one which type of crimping tool to use and why. Maybe I'd have lost fewer fish if I'd have known it made a difference how the sleeve was crimped...

http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/crimp_techniques.html

HTH

[EricofAZ]

Awesome again. Reminded me of 22 ga wire crimps. I think I can get them in copper by the pound.

Now another test disaster. Just about 2/3 of the way down on another test, I noticed the flame was huge. Turns out the P-160 wick droppings caught fire in the melt pool and started burning. Diameter is less than an inch, but close.

So I guess I need to find a wick that self consumes and doesn't drop any white or charred black bits.

[EricofAZ]

Ok, found the non-insulated wire butt splices.

Scroll down to the 22-10ga non insulated butt splices

http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-us/d47.html

Not sure this is the best price, but its not bad from what I recall from aviation days. I think I can thread one onto a wick and crimp and then position the wick in the mould so that the flame terminates well above the safety point (2 inches or so IMHO).

[Stella1952]

Only thing, is this: even if crimped, if the wick can still suck liquid wax, it won't extinguish right away...

[EricofAZ]

My sample order arrived and I found the P160 fit into the 22-18ga just fine. There is a blockage in the middle so the wick doesn't go all the way through. I crimped the wick and on the other end, added some old fishing line I was getting ready to throw away and crimped that. The butt splice was positioned about half way in the mould and I poured the wax. It burned to the splice and died out just fine.

So, anyway, the first test seems to be OK.

I am on to a different wax, 4807, which doesn't drip at all (whoopie!) and just need to decide if its best to terminate mid candle with this process or let it go to the end with the brass cup. The cup is easier but more expensive. The butt splice is way cheaper but more labor intensive.

Edited July 2, 2011 by EricofAZ

[Stella1952]

crimped the wick and on the other end, added some old fishing line I was getting ready to throw away and crimped that. The butt splice was positioned about half way in the mould and I poured the wax. It burned to the splice and died out just fine.

Brilliant idea. Nice goin', Eric.

[BruceCarvesWax]

If they are true hand dipped tapers and not made with a dipping frame there will be at least one inch of wax at the bottom of the candle past the wick that will stop the burning process. Just as when we dip for the star candles we have drips we have to cut off, just don't cut them off. I would say there would be almost 2 inch of wax without a wick at the bottom of them and that can be pressed into a glass taper holder to form a nice base. No extra trouble and no extra cost.

Bruce

[EricofAZ]

Ah, yeah, that makes sense. No, the tapers are in a mould like this and the wick (or fishing twine) has to go all the way and stretch a bit like a pillar mould.

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Lamps_Lights___Candles_and_Candlemaking___Candlemaking___Tin_Candle_Molds_for_Candlemaking___34029170?Args=#

[Candybee]

I am on to a different wax, 4807, which doesn't drip at all (whoopie!) and just need to decide if its best to terminate mid candle with this process or let it go to the end with the brass cup. The cup is easier but more expensive. The butt splice is way cheaper but more labor intensive.

Just a thought. If I purchased any taper candle for a wedding or otherwise and it or all of them extingquished themselves midway I would be very unhappy and want my money back,

If its for personal use. No biggie. But if these are testers for the wedding candles or for sale just keep in mind customers will expect the candle to burn all the way down.

[EricofAZ]

Good point. And if these were simple tapers, I would agree. I'd use that base cap that Scented found. However, they are carved tapers and at the base there are problems with the candle and the carving. The carving will not fold in and melt and burn, it will fall off and drippage occurs again.

I was told that the churches want "absolutely dripless" candles.

So, given the problems with carved candles, and the requirement for absolutely dripless, and the safety issues at termination if I let it burn down into the candle holder, this seems like an interesting approach.

I'm open to ideas. Here's a photo of what they kinda look like.

[Candybee]

Those are pretty.

Frankly, I'd use beeswax and make straight tapers for the majority of the wedding candles for burning purposes. For those beautifully crafted tapers I would make them into table decorations for show only. I would also set them in a hurricane glass with flowers surrounding them. Then you can make them with a stopgap feature built into them if they plan to burn them during the ceremony. I think in a table setting you can get away with them burning just halfway if you explain why you made them that way. But I think as a table decor they would be nice without even burning.

For the serious burning candles I'd use only dripless tapers like the beeswax I mentioned. I think there may be some paraffin wax and wick combo that can be made almost dripless but beeswax sounds like the ticket to me.