IGI4627 - Hot Throw Help.

[dsipp138]

Having trouble with CT & HT from the IGI4267. I'm sure its just something I'm doing so if you could help that would be great.

Below is what I have tried. Almost each FO was from a different supplier. Poured into pre-heated 8oz tins. 3" diameter.

Results: All resulted in poor FO throw. I've had better results from NB 464 soy. Hot and Cold throw. I also put the mango and moonlight Path in the electric candle warmer and did not notice a difference in the FO throw.

I did not get a full burn pool from any of the containers after 2.5 hrs, and put them out to test another FO.

I knew i needed to wick up so i tried double wicking my next batch. The results are just about the same in regard to FO throw.

This time i used 1/2% Vybar.

I've read the the pouring Temp is 175-185.

Your help is appreciated. Thank You!

Edited May 29, 2011 by dsipp138
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[SliverOfWax]

It's been awhile since I used 8 oz tins. When I did, I generally used 2 HTP 41 wicks. On wicker uppers, such as Blueberry Cobbler, Wildberry Mousse, I generally had to use 2 HTP 52s. I love the look of double wicking in an 8 oz tin and wouldn't even consider wicking with just one wick.

I've never pre-heated a jar or container in my life. There's simply no reason to do so with comfort blend, and especially with tins.

Are you saying you're pre-heating your fragrance oils? There's no reason to pre-heat oils unless one crystallizes due to freezing temps.

When I used tins, and now with whatever container I'm using, I generally use 8% fragrance oil. Occasionally, I can go down to 7%, but I start at 8%. I never go up to 9%. No fragrance oil is worth it.

For throw testing, I let my candles cure from 2-4 days, as a general rule. Some much longer if I've poured a bunch of testers but that's not generally how I operate. Four or five different scents at a time is more than enough.

Keep in mind that you probably won't get a full melt pool with your first burn. When wick testing, which I sometimes do after about 12 hours or so, I burn around 4 hours the first burn. After letting the candle sit for another 12 hours or so, I relight and let burn for another 4 hours. This usually tells me if it's wicked correctly. At this point, I'm not testing for throw. If I get a good throw, fine, but if I don't, like I said, I let it cure another day or so.

I don't know a single thing about the wicking you're using. Can't help you there.

Oh, edited to add: I've never used any additives with comfort blend. It's not necessary. That could certainly be inhibiting your throw.

Hope this helps.

Edited May 29, 2011 by SliverOfWax

[Pam W]

why are you using vybar?

[dsipp138]

I've never pre-heated a jar or container in my life. There's simply no reason to do so with comfort blend, and especially with tins.

Are you saying you're pre-heating your fragrance oils? There's no reason to pre-heat oils unless one crystallizes due to freezing temps.

I don't know a single thing about the wicking you're using. Can't help you there.

Oh, edited to add: I've never used any additives with comfort blend. It's not necessary. That could certainly be inhibiting your throw.

Hope this helps.

I read somewhere that preheating was a good idea. Thanks for the time saving tip. I did not preheat the FO. I thought about it though. I just added the FO to the wax at 180.

I think i'm good with the wicking, however i'm sure someone would say that the hot throw is directly related to the melt pool. So I put the tid bit about double wicking it in there. I used two L-12; HTP-52; ECO-6 in my double wicked testers. Same results in regard to FO throw. (Not letting them cure for 2-3 days)

I also read that paraffin didn't require a curing time. So my question to you would be the following: Now that i have burned the testers, can they still cure or should i start over with a new batch.

[dsipp138]

why are you using vybar?

I read somewhere that Vybar helped with the FO throw. I'm still new to this so please excuse my ignorance.

I'm testing the candles in a closed 16x10 bedroom, every 15 mins for Throw. The throw after about 2 hrs of burning would be described as a little bit stronger than a used dryer sheet, but not as strong as an unused dryer sheet. I'd expect to open the door and cough. Your help is appreciated.

Edited May 29, 2011 by dsipp138

[SliverOfWax]

Preheating containers is mostly done to eliminate wet spots, which I've never gotten with comfort blend. Most of my jars candles are in 8 oz masons. THAT SAID: I don't color my candles, so even if I had wet spots, they wouldn't be noticeable. If you're making a dark colored candle, well, I don't know if you would see wet spots or not. Comfort blend is so soft it would be difficult to get a really dark color. On the rare occasions I use dye, I use such a small amount it just tints the candle.

Wax has changed over the years, as has fragrance oil. Now it's all that silly phal...whatever it is free crap. They need to stop fooling around with wax and oils and just let us make candles. Don't even get me started on that! lol. My point is two HTP 52s in an 8 oz tin should be right with oils like Wildberry Mousse and Blueberry Cobbler, as well as most oils with vanilla, earthy oils, the heavier oils. There were rare occasions when I had to use 3 HTP 41s in the really difficult scents like Patchouli. But since so much has changed since I primarily used 8 oz tins, I'm relying on my past experience and not what might work today. I have found I'm having to wick up in 8 oz masons compared to 3 or 4 years ago. Keep that in mind and don't be afraid to even try 2 HTP 62s if you still aren't getting a full melt pool.

You definitely do NOT need additives with comfort blend.

Why don't you just set the candles aside until after Memorial Day, then light them again. You don't need to remake them. Seriously, with an oil like Wildberry Mousse, which is one of my favorite scents (Candle Science), the throw after 3 or 4 days should scent a large area. Moonlight Path is generally a light scent and even though you'll know it's there, it's never going to knock you over.

Don't be afraid to ask questions. The questions you're asking are legitimate.

What % FO are you using? Are you using a digital scale? Are you coloriong your candles?

[dsipp138]

What % FO are you using? Are you using a digital scale? Are you coloriong your candles?

Silver,

Thanks for your reply's on both boards. I really need the help. I'm taking your advice and will let them cure for another couple of days before burning them again. I am using colors with candles. So far i've been using a 10% FO load, with a digital scale that I measure by weight. I'm looking to go into business and i'm not sure if i'm going to offer colors. I have liquid dye so my results can be reproduced if need be.

Do you use the 4627?

What temp do you add your FO?

How hot do you heat the wax before you add your FO?

What temp do you pour?

I've used the following scents

LoneStar Blueberry cobbler

NCCS Warm Vanilla Sugar

CS Wildberry Mouse

CS Beach Linen

DPS Moonlight Path

DPS Mango

DPS Blackberry Vanilla

LoneStar Pound Cake

Edited May 29, 2011 by dsipp138

[SliverOfWax]

Yes, I use 4627.

My thermometer broke many years ago and I've never replaced it. I keep my wax in my Presto at about 195. My Presto has a spigot. By the time I've transferred the wax from the Presto into a room temperature pour pot, it's probably around 180. I add FO right away, and whisk it good and proper, then pour.

You shouldn't need to go as high as 10% on your FO. Start with 8% or less. Definitely not more. You're using too much. Then by the time you've added dye, which further inhibits proper wicking, you've really got a sluggish formula. All that plus the additive, and I can see why you're not getting the result you want.

Lone Star Pound Cake has no throw for me. I've only made Lone Star Blueberry Cobbler in wickless. I hate to say this, but I'm not all that fond of Lone Star's oils. I get my wax and jars from them, but have had limited success with their oils. I don't fool with them anymore. Just remember that most vanillas, cobblers, heavy scents like that will usually require wicking up. I've never used the other oils from the suppliers you mentioned except Wildberry Mousse (CS). I had to wick up in an 8 oz mason.

IMO, 4627 is the absolute best wax available, and I've tried a lot. I use HTP wicks almost exclusively. I went through a phase recently where I tried LX (mid-life crisis, I think) and they mushroomed something horrible. Stick with HTP if you can.

One thing to always remember: Your first burn will not ever be the same as your 2nd, 3rd, and so forth. The first burn should have a nice flame, but it's unlikely you'll get a full melt pool. If you do, your subsequent burns will most likely be too hot. It's important to burn the candle top to bottom before you make your final wick decision, but don't expect a perfect melt pool the first time.

[dsipp138]

Could you message me some of the FO suppliers and Container Suppliers you use. I have wasted a ton on LoneStar FO's. I was begining to think they weren't very good from another thread i read. (That thread was an old thread back in 2006. Guess things haven't changed much.)

[Wessex]

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?5492-Supplier-Abbreviations-and-Links

I use Natures Garden (NG), CandleScience (CS) and Peaks for 80 % of my FO's. They all have very good FO's, but as with all suppliers, there are a few duds.

Cheers,

Steve

[Pam W]

I read somewhere that Vybar helped with the FO throw. I'm still new to this so please excuse my ignorance.

I believe vybar usage is recommended at 1/2tsp per pound of wax. Too much and it can/will lock up the scent throw.

[SliverOfWax]

My main supplier for quite a few years has been Tennessee. There are others I buy from sporadically. Tony's, CandleScience.

I stopped buying tins when my distributor stopped carrying them. I still have a some, but right about that same time (3 of 4 years ago), 8 oz masons started selling well for me. I also started concentrating on wickless in 6 oz tureens about that same time.

I currently get my wax, masons and tureens from Lone Star, but many suppliers carry them. You have to look at your shipping to decide where to get those big bulk items. I get my wicks from Candlewic.

[dsipp138]

Thanks for the info. I've seen Tennessee before but never went to the website to look around because of shipping. I'm actually taking a trip there shortly so it may be worth a look.

[dsipp138]

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?5492-Supplier-Abbreviations-and-Links

I use Natures Garden (NG), CandleScience (CS) and Peaks for 80 % of my FO's. They all have very good FO's, but as with all suppliers, there are a few duds.

Cheers,

Steve

I just got a order in from CS and Peak. I haven't ordered from NG just yet. I was told they have very good FO's

[SliverOfWax]

I was told they have very good FO's

I haven't ordered from NG in probably close to 10 years. There's a reason for that. I've heard they've gotten better. I haven't been willing to take that chance.

As far as Tennessee, it won't cost you any more to buy oils from Tennessee as from any other supplier. Most suppliers ship UPS and the differences are pennies. Tennessee gives free shipping if you order 6 lbs, mix and match.

It's the heavy stuff like wax and containers that you have to worry about regarding shipping charges.

Edited May 30, 2011 by SliverOfWax

[Ring of Fire]

Yes, NG, has tons of good FO's. Like anywhere else, there is bound to be duds along the way but for the most part you can't go wrong.

[coconut]

Different suppliers have different FOs, even by the same name. Lonestar, like all suppliers, has great FOs and not so great FOs. I'm not familiar with DPS. The best way to start is to search the forum and see what other people say about the scent you like.The Search is not working right since the upgrade but you can Google the scent or supplier with craftserver in the search and you will get a lot of hits. Good Luck.

[dsipp138]

Burned another tester today and I wasn't pleased with the throw. I could smell it just a little after i got out the shower. It had been burning for about an hour. No noticable difference after the 4hr burn mark. I know i need to wick up because I didn't get a full melt pool. Burn pool was 2.5" after 4hrs.

My mom came over right after i put it out and she didn't mention the smell or the candle.

Apple Jack n Peel from Lonestar - Double HTP83 Wicks - 3.5" Square Container - Cranberry Dye Chip - 12oz wax - 12% FO load. Curred 2 days.

How much of an impact will that have on throw?

What are your suggestions for testing and measuring for FO throw?

I'm looking to make a candle that has the FO throw strong like AirFreshner, or Axe (Spray Deoderant). My glade plugin (the oil kind) smells stronger.

Thanks for your help.

Edited May 31, 2011 by dsipp138