FO and Wicking

[kgala0405]

I am new to candle making and to this forum. I have snooped around and have learned a lot from everyone in this forum. After making a few candles I have realized that candles are a system made from a container, wick, wax and fragrance. I found it was easy to determine the proper wick when not adding fragrance, but once fragrance was added to the equation it made everything a lot more difficult. This is because I use the same wax, the same wick and the same container, and they are all consistent. However, I found that every fragrance has different properties. However, being a logical person I realize this is all science so there must be a pattern that can be found. After doing some research I have read that fragrance oils with low flash points and low specific gravities have a tendency to be wicked down and fragrance oils with high flash points and high specific gravities need to generally be wicked up.

Knowing this I feel if I had enough data I could hopefully find a pattern or system that would hopefully help predict whether or not a certain fragrance oil will need to be wicked up, wicked down or if no changes will be needed. The problem is I need data and I was hoping this community could help me with that. Of course anything that I learn through this process I will share with everyone and they can do whatever they wish with it.

I think every person who has been making candles for some time knows the wick size that works best in their container without adding fragrance oil. I was hoping people could share which fragrance oils have caused them to wick up and which one have caused them to wick down from the ideal wick size for the container. For the sake of consistency, if you would like to participate you can share your information in this format:

Fragrance Oil Name/Company/Flash Point /Specific Gravity/Then state how much you wicked up or down or state that you didn't have to.

Here is an example:

Butt Naked/Natures Garden/225 F/0.999/Wick Down -1

You can generally find the specific gravity in the MSDS sheet that many fragrance distributors share on their site. Not all do, but many of them will. To find any sort of pattern I will need the flash point and specific gravity, so if you only have one number it won’t be of any use. If the specific gravity is listed as a range, just post the lower number of the range.

I think if we can get enough data, we will see some sort of pattern. This will save us time from testing numerous wicks and most importantly I think it will save all of us MONEY!

[Bella Rose]

I'm afraid of the proceeding surge of Chandler newbs if this were to be created!! lol - interesting to say the least

[Vicky_CO]

Sorry but there is not pattern I have oils that have a low FP and a Low SGW that I have to be wick up all the time.

Here another one for you I have tried FO that others swore needed to be wicked up but in my blend I have to wick down.

If you knew all the chemical components of a FO you might be able to pull this off but the FO manufacturer are not going to tell you anything as it is propitiatory info. Heck even the suppliers are not going to tell you where they get them so you can question the manufacturer.

[Pam W]

If all this info was accurate and available, then Newbies wouldn't have to do any testing.....is that the purpose of this thread?

[kgala0405]

I don't think any system would be 100% accurate. We all make candles, but I'm sure every member makes them differently. My hopes were to collect data to find a general pattern. I know there will always be a few that won't fit into the pattern, but I was hoping this would create a better starting point for newbie’s and veteran candle makers alike.

This thread wasn’t meant to find a way around testing for newbie’s, but it was meant to make experimentation and testing more efficient for everyone. I guess the results of this would cause newbie’s to test less, but I’m sure everyone could benefit from it.

Thanks Vickie for sharing your information, it’s good to know. However, I’m pretty stubborn so I think I’m going to continue my testing and hopefully I’ll be able to come up some sort of pattern within my own candle making. If I come up with anything, I’ll let everyone know. I’m not one to hold my cards too close.

[nmhoneybear]

Personally, I don't pay any attention to either flashpoint or specific gravity when I use a particular FO, and I have been at this for over four years. If I like a FO, I find a way to make it work in my wax, whether in candle form or in tarts.

Edited March 16, 2011 by nmhoneybear

[Pam W]

Personally, I'd rather spend my time pouring and testing instead of overthinking how I should pour and test.

[SliverOfWax]

I keep some pretty anal records but flashpoint and specific gravity are two things I don't include in my criteria.

Since every little aspect has to be tested anyway, I see no reason to worry about things I can't control. I can control FO load, wick size, which container to use, whether to use dye. SG and FP don't enter into my decision to buy an oil, so I see no need to bother with that aspect.

But that's just me.

[jonsie]

I admire you for undertaking such a huge challenge. I would consider myself a logical person too, and I have also recently become very interested in the flash points of different FOs.

However, it may be difficult to establish a pattern here based on the data points you are requesting. One variable with FOs that changes the outcome of the candle burn is % used. I may use 6% of Lovespell in one candle, but I may use 8% of Christmas Tree in another candle. This changes the overall composition of the wax, and my wicking needs vary as well.

The use of dye in the candles also affects wicking. Not all of us color our candles, but in my case I do. The amount of dye, the type of dye, the medium of the dye (powder, liquid, chip, block), can change from one of my candles to another.

Not all chandlers stick with one brand of wick. They may find that not only do they need to wick up or wick down, they may need to switch to a different brand because maybe it can better handle the dye or vanillin (or whatever) better.

It would be wonderful to have a reference like what you are suggesting, but the number of variables, the volume of data, and, most importantly, the subjectivity of each individual's results, may yield too wide of a range of patterns to be useful.

I really do not like to discourage anyone on any kind of project such as this. I love collecting data and twisting and turning it around to find helpful information from it. But I felt I needed to speak up to say that a lot of other factors are involved, and since the results are based on a matter of opinion, you probably wouldn't get the reliable patterns you originally hoped to get.

Best of luck to you.

[Stella1952]

I never discourage anyone from experimenting but as others have expressed, I do not think there is enough standardization among FOs, waxes and additives to support good data. Suppliers purchase their FOs from manufacturers. They have the option of blending the FOs further, further diluting the FOs, etc. A supplier may not dilute today, but may change his/her mind next month. FOs are reformulated frequently. There's just no way to adequately collect and extrapolate data for this project. The specific gravity and flashpoint are not the end-all and be all of wicking up or down. The container & shape have a great deal to do with wicking, as do environmental conditions. I think it would be impossible to deal with ALL the types/sizes of wicks, ALL the different wax combinations, ALL the different suppliers' FOs and ALL the different containers.

As you said, you are new to candle making. What you think is a well-wicked candle now may change over time. This might be a valuable project for your candle system, but I don't think it would have much value for chandlers in general. Good luck.

[kgala0405]

Thanks Jonsie and Stella for posting; your advice was very helpful. I didn’t realize that people made such drastic changes to their system when introducing a new FO. Currently, I have only played with one type of container, one type of wick, one type of wax, and I buy all my FO’s from the same company. I guess as I gain more experience and branch into new containers and waxes, I’m sure I’ll will eventually discover why these drastic changes are needed.

After reading Jonsie’s and Stella’s valid points, I think they are right. I think it would be impossible to generalize something like this so that everyone could use it. However, I think I can still play with the data and use it for my own candle making system where I have more control over the variables involved. I understand that flash point and specific gravity are not the only variables involved in deciding which wick to use, but I do feel it offers a clue as to where you should start your experiment. Thanks everyone for your feedback. :smiley2:

[Stella1952]

I'm glad that you are thinking deeply about your candlemaking. It's definitely not a "one size fits all" craft! I keep charts for the waxes, FOs, additives, dyes, containers & wicks that I use, but that might not be applicable to people using other materials. Generalities are not hard to come by but specifics can give ya fits! Good luck & hope you're having fun with your candles.

PS I've not read that specific gravity & flashpoint have all that much to do with wicking. Where did you read that?

Edited March 18, 2011 by Stella1952

[EricofAZ]

kgala, I think you are doing it right. Start with a baseline that is the same over and over and learn it well. Then as you introduce additives, or differently style wicks or colors or FO or EO, you can get a sense of how that will change your "system."

You may be right about flash point and specific gravity in general and you will find that some FO's just don't behave the way you thought because they clog a wick or react with the wax.

I have paid attention to viscosity and find that I wick up with thicker viscosity and wick down with thinner viscosity. I don't measure viscosity by any scientific means, I just "guess" based on what I consider to be an average viscosity for FO's.

[kgala0405]

@Stella: Here is a link for where I got this information: http://www.naturesgardencandles.com/candlemaking-soap-supplies/item/942/-Common-Candle-Making-Questions.html

It might be hard to find, so I went ahead and copied it here for you:

Q: "I notice that with some of my fragrances, I cannot get the candle to get a full melt-pool across the top. Why?" A: "Fragrances vary in flash point and specific gravity. When a fragrance has a high flash point and high specific gravity, it requires a hotter burning wick to allow the fragrance to evaporate out of the wax, and to get a nice melt-pool. When a fragrance has a low flash point and low specific gravity, it requires a smaller sized wick to allow the fragrance to evaporate out of the wax, and get a nice melt-pool. Vanilla fragrances tend to require a hotter burning wick; while citrus fragrances will require a smaller sized wick." (www.naturesgardencandles.com)

I went through their website and found that the vanilla fragrances did have a tendency to have high flash points and specific gravity. I also found the lowest fragrances were the citrus ones. However, as everyone has told me I also found a few vanilla and citrus fragrances that didn’t fit the mold.

@ErickofAZ: Thanks Eric, glad to hear I’m on the right path. Thanks for the tip on viscosity, I will have to keep that in mind.