What is the deal...

[Faerywren]

With folks wanting to start candle/soap businesses without having made the first candle or bar of soap? I always knew I wanted to learn how to soap. Once I realized that I LOVED doing it, and could do it well, it became a business. I didn't start candles until much later just because I wasn't sure I would enjoy it as much.

The whole thing is akin to me waking up tomorrow thinking, "I'm going to start a bakery!" and never having opened a cake mix.

Maybe the holidays are making me snarky.

[Judy, USMC]

Maybe it's the time of the year ... coupled with the economy (where it is less expensive to give hand made than load up the charge card) ... and the "It's so easy you can do it at home" instructions from You Tube.

Yep, just melt the wax, add some FO and dye, stick in a wick and TA-DA you have made a candle! Or just melt some M&P base into a pretty mold, wrap it up, and take the money to the bank.

Maybe that's why we are seeing so many requests for "The Best Wax, Wicks, Oils and Additives." I think once they face reality they will decide to stick with it (like most of us here) or realize it's much more complicated than it sounds and drop out.

[Scented]

It's typical this time of year. About 17 years ago or so that was how I got hooked on it and doing the exact same thing ... melt the wax, pour into wicked molds and I tried about everything I could, including a lot of dangerous stuff too.

Candlemaking was something I was looking to do to kill my boredom. I never wanted to soap, but now I do ... different strokes and kicks for different folks and kids.

[ah-soy]

When I first started "trying" to make candles my poor hubby couldn't understand why I was having sooooo much trouble making a good candle. He told me..."I made them all the time in elementary and Sunday School. Your just melt crayons with wax, pour it into a milk carton, stick in a wick and light it. What's the big deal?"

Now, mind you...this was from the man who, after I spent an awful night with the "comode huggin" stomach flu said, "I'll bet if you took a dip in the pool, it would make you feel better." In fairness to him, this was after an hour and a half of tending our then four year old and six month old. Go figure.

[islandgirl]

With folks wanting to start candle/soap businesses without having made the first candle or bar of soap?

As Scented said - It's that time of year.. Happens every year.. People think candle and soap making is easy!!!:rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2

It's ok to dream and set goals. I started out wanting to learn the craft to make a little extra money on the side. Dreaming that someday I would be able to make it into a business.

Which with a few years of testing and growing slowly, I have. I am confident that every candle I sell has an excellent hot and cold throw and burns clean.

( Which takes a lot of testing for EACH and EVERY Scent I use.)

But it is the people who make candles for a month, then have 150+ scents for sale on their website and candles in all different glassware that scare me. Those people are dangerous!!! There is no way they can test every scent for the throw and make sure that they burn correctly.

Those people are the ones that go out of business in 3-6moths and we never hear from them again on this board.

(By then they have moved on to jerwerly making or anther craft they think the can get rich quick on!!!! )

[Wessex]

Agree about the people with new businesses and 300 scents! I have about 20 FO's that I would be reasonably comfortable unleasing on the public! And that is after testing using many cases of wax. Think the inexperienced chandler thinks all FO's react the same. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but after looking through Etsy, Ebay, etc, and seeing the crap out there (and wild claims), I am a little disgusted. Seems for every decent chandler there are 2 or 3 sketchy ones. I don't know...don't want to get off on a rant.

Cheers,

Steve

And if they want to get rich...better pick another business. It would take me a long time to just make back what I have spent testing and playing! But I am having fun and I enjoy the testing (glutton for punishment, LOL).

Edited December 22, 2010 by Wessex

[Faerywren]

I'm with Wessex. I have a full time job as a nurse. I sell because it gives me an excuse to make more. My investment through the years is really appalling. i will be worm food before I recoup all my $.

[marcuset]

If we were in it for purely the money...we would have given up long ago...it's so much cheaper to go out & buy a few ridiculously overpriced YC's or whatever...(not that I would anymore). The satisfaction being able to do your own & have others love them too...that is rewarding...the $ may come...or may not. I've learned how easy...it isn't. But, it brings alot of enjoyment & good smells:rolleyes2

[adillenal]

I only make soap and I have been appalled at the competitors that have come out of the woodwork for the Christmas season. POOR quality soap and if someone buys one of them it will probably turn them off of handcrafted soap forever. I even had a customer tell me about a man at a show she had been to with AWFUL soap. (her description) At least my customers can tell the difference.

I only make goat milk soap and these are supposed to be goat milk soaps but they are chalky looking and cumbly looking and just not nice.

Oh well, they won't be back out until next fall so I can keep on keeping on until then.

I don't think you are being snarky at all. I have suffered through the same thing this year. Economy probably.

[Maggie]

I am glad that someone posted this. When I look at all of the candlemaking stuff that I have...I start seeing all of the $$$ signs in my head. I think some of us would qualify as a supplier...lol. Cases of wax that worked great and doesn't anymore for some strange reason. My wick drawer is FULL of every kind of wick in just about every size. A fragrance oil that you SEARCH everywhere to find the exact dupe for someone...and then after you finally find it...test it...and then pour a small one for them to try. They burn it and say yep that's it but I'll pass for now. Thank God the one scent that I searched for "forever"...someone else loves it. Of course now that supplier went OOB and I'm now completely out of the oil. Doing another search I found another supplier that carries it and the site says "type" so I am ordering a sample after the new year and HOPE it is the same.

I started researching THIS obsession right after my mother passed away in Jan. 2000. I poured my first 2 candles in March 2001. One scent...Gardenia. I tested one here at home and thought it burned well and had a great throw. My best friend lives a few houses down the road from me and her hubby worked swing shifts. I would go to her house when he worked nights...take the other candle and we would burn it while we talked. She said she loved it. I got brave and ordered more samples from NG and the obsession began. Got brave and did a craft show in the summer of 2003. When I look back to where I was and where I have come in the almost 10 years from researching...WOW!!! I have come a long way.

I think most of us have spent a lot of money on fragrances that don't work in our particular wax. We BUY, we POUR, we TEST.

And the bottom line is...I can say what works for me...someone else can use the same exact everything...and it doesn't work for them. Been there and done that too.

Speaking of soaps...I did a show a few years ago. There were a couple of vendors that had CP soap. The one that I bought from had nice looking soaps, a nice looking display and she herself had a clean/nice appearance. I would NOT have bought from the other person. Her soaps weren't "finished" nicely. Her display was nothing but soap lined up across 3 long tables. And she herself looked like she just came in from the fields. Her fingernails were dirty...her hair was long, stringy and greasy looking...and she was dressed in old boots, dirty torn jeans and an old blue flannel shirt over a stained T-shirt.

I'm done venting.

[Scented]

When I first started "trying" to make candles my poor hubby couldn't understand why I was having sooooo much trouble making a good candle. He told me..."I made them all the time in elementary and Sunday School. Your just melt crayons with wax, pour it into a milk carton, stick in a wick and light it. What's the big deal?"

Now, mind you...this was from the man who, after I spent an awful night with the "comode huggin" stomach flu said, "I'll bet if you took a dip in the pool, it would make you feel better." In fairness to him, this was after an hour and a half of tending our then four year old and six month old. Go figure.

I'm sorry, but I'm LMAO at this!! Sounds like a book we need to compile of the stupid things men say ... (yeah I said it.)

[Scented]

I only make soap and I have been appalled at the competitors that have come out of the woodwork for the Christmas season. POOR quality soap and if someone buys one of them it will probably turn them off of handcrafted soap forever. I even had a customer tell me about a man at a show she had been to with AWFUL soap. (her description) At least my customers can tell the difference.

I'm more appalled by the competitors who come out of the woodwork and spout off crap they know nothing about and some of them used to be friends of ours ... you know the kind who have made something with Bubble Gum EO.

I have seen the soapers too and each are fighting for a niche and a piece of ground. The ones who really make me nervous are those who just made a batch of CP and are selling it two weeks later. How does it lather? Answer: Like soap. Shouldn't you let it cure longer? Answer: You can if you want, but this is luxury soap and luxury waits for no one. Response: I can do without what you call luxury.

Granted when I started soaping, I got raked over the coals for the questions I was asking and I asked a lot that sent some people into lecture mode, which was fine and all except that I was asking because I had already experienced the situation and didn't need the ritual ass chewing just some thoughts on why. I wasn't selling then either, but knew we were gonna some day, because that's just how it was going to be. But we weren't going to be selling without landing on what we felt was the right mix and I wasn't into selling experiments.

And then we heard the horror stories from people who started to buy, but in our world, we can't make claims like those who sell bars that have a little zip and zing on the skin and an occasional possible burn might say ... oh that's just natural and helps you sluff off dead skin ...

[adillenal]

Sounds like more than a few of us ran into some competitors out making Christmas money by selling their first batch or soap and/or first candle.

[mrsadler05]

Funny how I am so very new to this myself and even I am irritated by the number of people asking for everything to be handed to them on a silver platter- and the number of people willing to enable them. These people think they can just decide one day to make candles and soap, get tired or bored with researching and come in and ask all of you veterans for your tried and true recipes so they don't have to waste money.

I just made some modified m&p soap for Christmas presents and I am thinking I better run to the mall tomorrow to find alternative gifts before I start losing friends. My soaps smell and feel great on the skin, but I am concerned about the appearance of it. My colors didn't come out as I had hoped so on to many more hours of researching colorants and techniques. I found a candle combination I am proud of, but you can't start a business with one candle. I have way too much to learn before ever dreaming of selling products.

I, too, assumed candle/b& b making would be easy, but I still did tons of research and spent many all-nighters glued to my lap top reading this forum only to learn that if I want to make quality products, I have to commit to taking this on in the utmost professional, consistent and scientific manner possible.

I am an esthetician by trade and work as a eucator/territory manager for a professional skin care line. Active ingredients and how they function in the skin are my passion. Reputations are made by offering quality and consistency and ruined by offering crap and not understanding how your products work and who to recommend them for.

This is the first hobby I have persued in my life. I have always been interested in creating things, but never took the step until now. But I am years away from even beginning to dream of selling my products.

I have a healthy respect for all of you veterans and I am truly greatful for all of your hard work and research you have been willing to share.

Thank you all and Merry Christmas!!

Leigh

P.S. I hope my post makes sense and I didn't ramble too much. I had a really long day, too little to eat and a couple of glasses of wine.

[RichardLOZ]

I think that so many people start this "hobby" with stars in their eyes, thinking that they are going to make a million dollars but melting wax, putting some FO in it and a wick, or buying a ton of M&P, making it into pretty shapes and off they go.

Like most of us I think, they will get the message and the reality of this craft and either give up as it is too hard and too costly, or else commit, put in the hard yards, spend the money and go on to make a hopefully great quality product.

Those that spend 5 minutes doing it and then think they have it down are the ones that make it extremely hard for the rest of us. Many people have the attitude of once bitten twice shy and if they have bought a candle or some B&B products from someone who really does not have their s^&t together and it is a terrible and poor quality product, then they are going to be much less likely to test those waters again from another small home based business.

It takes a long time to build up a good solid reputation. Repeat business is always the indicator for us. It is relatively easy to get a new customer, however the real test is if they come back to purchase again.

Reputation is built over time and takes a lot of very hard work, rigorous testing, confidence and belief in your product, knowledge of what you are doing so that you can confidently recommend a product or products to a customer, not to mention copious amounts of money poured into what you love to do.

Sometimes it is a love / hate relationship this business, but I guess it must be more love than hate as we all seem to keep on coming back, trying new oils, new jars, new products, hence more testing, more money and more time.

Sometimes I wonder if I am crazy having started with this obsession, but the satisfaction that you get when a customer comes back and comments on how great your product is, or that phone call out of the blue from someone who smelt your candle burning and one of theis friends houses and just had to have one, can make it all so worthwhile.

[Faerywren]

I'm loving reading all of the replies to this thread.

For the record, I don't have any problem with newbies to the hobby/art/whatever you want to call it of soap or candle making. I remember being that person. I bought a book on soap making and one on candle making from a craft book club I belonged to about 17 years ago. I read through both of them and thought, "Wow, that's some intricate business going on there! I'm not sure I want to try that yet." I'd would still go through the books every so often and ogle the pictures until I finally got up the nerve to start making. When I got into this I read, read, read everything. I would surf the internet looking at different forums and pages dedicated to the craft. I quickly learned which sites to stay away from (recipe for lip gloss containing vaseline and lemon juice, anyone?) and which ones had knowledgeable, experienced members. I made soap. Lots and lots of soap. I played, practiced, experimented until I found what worked for me. Now I'm doing the same with candles. I'm just sick to death of: Post #1 "Hi everyone! I'm starting my candle business and I need to know what wax, jars and wicks to get. What fragrances should I get and who has the best? Oh yeah, and I'm going to do soaps, too. What base should I get and who should I get it from?" Really? You're on the internet! Research it and put out the cash like the rest of us. Do you even know if you'll like crafting as a business?

I was doing a market one weekend and a couple came up and started looking at my stuff. The matriarch was sweet as could be and asked me, "This is all yours? You make all this?" I told her I did. She then turned to her husband and said, "We need to tell (insert grown daughter with 3 young children's name here) about this. This would be something she could do." I was then told all about this daughter who was a stay at home mom and needed to find something to make money. She took a business card and informed me "I'm going to get your number so my daughter can call you and get help." I was speechless. And I only got one e mail from the daughter by the way. Luckily, after her mother told her about me, she went online and researched for herself. She realized it wasn't all that easy and decided it was not for her. I commend her.

If you all have any stories like this one, please, add them! I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd enjoy 'em!

[adillenal]

At my last monthly market in December I had a customer (man) who told me all about a friend of a friend who had a goat and wanted to make goat milk soap etc. He took a card and said he would have her contact me so maybe we could work together so I would have someone to keep the business going after - you know. Hey I am 60 years old, still work a fulltime very stressful job, raise dairy goats, milk them and show them and make and sell goat milk products. I am not elderly and about to keel over nor do I need someone to leave my business to. I was speechless which is a rare thing for me. I still shake my head when I think about it. At least I just looked at him and smiled since I had no idea what to say.

Don't you love people that assume we are just itching to teach others our craft? I do not want to teach anyone to do anything. Thank you very much. I learned the hard way. Trial and error.

[Wessex]

I am by no way an expert at candle making. I can make a good, solid Palm candle because I spent many months concentrating on just that one wax. I did as much research as possible, and only asked a question when I ran up against a problem I could not resolve with research and testing. I did not ask for specifics, like many newbies do. I definately did not expect anyone to tell me EXACTLY what I needed to do, LOL. Would not expect people who spent lots of time and money to hand me their solutions! If I see a newbie asking a specific question and then explaining what they have tried, yes I will try to give them an answer that has worked for me. If someone comes on and wants it handed to them with no testing and research, HELL NO, LOL.

I am going to be jumping into parasoy and soy tarts and clamshells in the new year, and do not expect anyone to hand me an answer that I can figure out for myself. I have already researched my butt off and come up with about 10 wax combinations I want to try. Already have most of the waxes, and am going to order the rest after the holidays. Gonna cost me lots of time and money. And that's the way it should be. I'm sure I will be asking for some opinions and tips somewhere down the line, but I will try to figure it out for myself first. AS IT SHOULD BE, LOL.

Sorry, I'm rambling here :smiley2:. Have to go pour a couple testers if I want to make an easy million dollars next year .

Happy Holidays All,

Steve

I guess I should add that I had a good grounding in paraffin candle making, so the learning curve wasn't horrible.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Wessex

[Faerywren]

Have to go pour a couple testers if I want to make an easy million dollars next year .

Happy Holidays All,

Steve

I guess I should add that I had a good grounding in paraffin candle making, so the learning curve wasn't horrible.

LOL. Testers? What do you need those for! Are you sure you won't pour the perfect candle first time out? Go ahead and pour dozens each in 50 different fragrances!

[LuminousBoutique]

Its the time of year for sure. And it is the economy as well.. I've had many people contact me saying they are interested in "doing what I do" Which absolutely shocks me.. who does that? Would you go up to a seamstress and say "give me all your patterns" or a jewelry maker and say "give me an a-z list of your suppliers, wicks, jars, and, oh.. all of your recipes too! thanks!"

I started out at Christmas time.. my grandma has always made soap.. so I had her teach me so I could sell it at my parents Christmas tree farm in the winter every year. This is starting back in 1990 when handmade soap was still kinda a novelty in our area. We charged $2.00 a bar and made maybe $500 a year, and I was totally happy with that.

I didnt get "serious" about it until I was a stay at home mom, and had lots of time but no income coming in. I had never used fragrance oils until Jan of 2010! Some people are shocked by that, but I always used esesntial oils or herbs/botanicals in my soaps. I had never used shea butter. I had never had access to the kind of information the internet provided...

I asked lots of dumb questions I'm sure.. but none of them were ever "do the work for me". THATS what gets to me. I get angry when someone steps up and expects all the work to be done for them. As we know, there are HUNDREDS of sources of information out there.. some good, some bad. But its your job if you want to do this to go out there and find it. Hundreds of fragrance oils.. you want to know who the best supplier is? Thats subjective! Sure we can tell you our favorites but the best comes down to what works best for you. Best wick? Figure it out for yourself, based on the logical information already provided. Best Wax? same answer as above.

Candles were always something I wanted to try but was so intimidated to try.. and then I found this forum and it gave me the confidence to bust the jars out, dig out the case of wax I had hidden from sight, and try again.

People think that because soap makers on etsy make alot of sales, we make alot of money and its a get rich quick scheme.. its not. ITS NOT, ok? Someone on the etsy forums said we say that to stop them from trying. No, not at all. We say that so you know ahead of time what you are getting into. THOUSANDS of dollars, actually, tens of thousands of dollars of supplies, testing, stock, shows, insurance, taxes... gah. It just frustrates me to try and explain it, and people give me blank stares.

At this point, I just want to say "yeah, go to hobby lobby, buy some "wax" some "wicks" pour them in a "jar" and see what happens." Dont even get me started on the "recycled jar" candle sellers.

[LuminousBoutique]

LOL. Testers? What do you need those for! Are you sure you won't pour the perfect candle first time out? Go ahead and pour dozens each in 50 different fragrances!

on that note, my husband made me throw out my boxes and boxes of failed testers. the discussion went like this:

"dont you have notes on that?"

*yes but I like to check back sometimes...*

"why do you need to keep all of these?"

*well I dont but I like to look back sometimes and what if I lose my notes?*

"honey?"

*yes?*

"throw them out"

and so.. over 140 (total failures) tester candles got tossed today. I'm actually quite proud of myself....

[Wessex]

Here's a funny story. Last month I had a store owner contact me and wanted me to supply some candles wholesale (would have been several hundred dollars). She basically wanted a bunch of fragrances I have not tested (did not want any I had tested). Told her there was no way I could get them tested and delivered in time for the holiday rush. She was understanding, but asked what was so hard about it. I already made the size jars she wanted, just change the dye and fragrance. I told her it did not work that way. Her response was that the supplier she sold now did it that way when she needed a new fragrance! Wow, wonder if she ever tried any of the candles. Makes you wonder how many candle makers are out there like this.

Cheers,

Steve

[LuminousBoutique]

Lots! One of my competitors is like this. She will do anything for anyone.. tested or not. I show people my list of FO's I've tested.. and aside from that they get told they will have to wait for test results.. because just when you think you know.. I poured some testers the other day that were so underwicked it was funny!

Edited December 25, 2010 by LuminousBoutique

[Judy, USMC]

and so.. over 140 (total failures) tester candles got tossed today. I'm actually quite proud of myself....

ARGH! My husband was reading over my shoulder!!!!

He just put his hand on my shoulder and said: "See, she did it ... You can too. "

[Faerywren]

ARGH! My husband was reading over my shoulder!!!!

He just put his hand on my shoulder and said: "See, she did it ... You can too. "

Good thing I'd swallowed my mouthful of coffee...

And FYI, failed testers around here get melted down for firestarters.