GB 464 No HT but great CT what is wrong?

[beccakatzen]

Hi everyone! I am new to candle making and this forum and as others I am about to pull my hair out! I started with EcoSoya CB advanced and the candles looked great but the scent throw was pretty weak. I tried GB 464 and the candles don't look so great but the CT was much better, but not much better with the HT . I used some peoples advice and added CO. I just test burned 2 candles 1 CB advanced and 1 464. Though the CT is amazing on both candles the HT is non-existant

Here is what I did please tell me what I've done wrong (I'm only concerend with the 464 now since I've decided it's the wax that I want to use--I'm giving them as Christmas presents and I don't want to give people candles that just smell like burning wax!)

melted 1 lb of 464 to 185 with 1 tsp of CO

added 1 salmon dye chip from CS

added 1 oz grapefruit mangostein FO from CS

removed from heat and stirred gently for 2 mins

placed my 8oz mason jars in the oven set at 150 (for about 10 mins)

removed jars a few minutes prior to pouring

poured wax at 150 (I have tried all different pour temps and this gave the smoothest tops)

I am using ECO 14 wics trimmed to 1/4"

The smelled wonderfully strong while curing. I let them cure for 1 week.

I test burned last night, wic trimmed to 1/4" and absolutely no HT at all. So what's up peoples? Any ideas. I talked with someone and I want to try and do a pour at around 110 to get rid of frosting, but would a lower pour temp increase HT? I am worried it's the wicks, maybe burning too fast but the melt pool had just reached the full width right at 1.5 hours so I don't think it's burning too fast or too hot. Could it be the brand of CO I'm using Harris Teeters Organic CO (it's the only one that they had) maybe I should be using the stuff from Walmart that I see everyone talking about. It doesn't give the temp like I've seen people saying the 76 degree one, but it says it's for medium high heat. I did have better HT before I used it so maybe it's the wrong type of CO????? Please help!!

[islandgirl]

Looks like your doing everything right. Don't get discouraged

Try a different oil, or add bump up your oil to 1.25oz/PP.

Some oils just don't throw in soy.

I have never used the grapefruit Manogostein so I can't help you there.

But .. I have used Mistletoe, Cinnamon buns, Love Spell, Banana nut bread, Cranberry Marmalade with good results in soy.

I found the 464 when I tested it to have less of a HT than the 415. That is my personal opinion. HTH

[Stella1952]

The size/type of wick has a great deal to do with the HT one achieves. When you say "8 oz mason" are you talking about wide mouth 8 oz. mason jars? If so, they have an inside diameter of 3"... I use a CDN 14 in mine (with NatureWax C3)...

but the melt pool had just reached the full width right at 1.5 hours so I don't think it's burning too fast or too hot

It is not unusual for a soy candle to not achieve FMP during the first or sometimes even the second burn, yet still have a great throw. Reaching FMP in only 1.5 hours is too quick, IMO, for a container with a diameter of greater than 1.5 inches. I test burn my candles for one hour per inch of diameter per session. I do not reach FMP during the first 3 hour session, but, as I said before, the HT is very good. I suspect if yours are burning faster that you may be overwicking and burning off the FO. If the candle continues with that kind of heat, the container will be too hot to handle by the middle-end of the jar.

Another factor may be curing. I let my candles cure 4-7 days at least before testing. A few fragrances take a longer cure than that to fully develop in the wax. Since where I live has changed from the Deep South to the Deep Freeze, I have noted that candles curing in my candle room (temp 45°-55°F) are curing more slowly than they do in warmer temps. Be sure you are giving your candles at least a few days to cure before testing them.

EcoSoya CB advanced and the candles looked great but the scent throw was pretty weak

That is typical of that wax. 464, however, has the reputation of being a good throwing wax, so something about your system may need adjustment. The hot throw should not be affected by the temps your are using when melting and pouring your wax. The appearance IS affected by those temps, but not the burn properties. Unless you COOK your wax with FO at temps of 190°+ for a long time, it just isn't a factor.

Grapefruit is a delicate fragrance, but unless it's just a "dud" FO (all suppliers have 'em, ya know), a week's curing at normal room temps (not like mine!) should have been plenty.

When in doubt about the HT of a FO, I usually put some in a tart melter and see if it throws in it. If it does, I know the problem doesn't lie with the wax or FO...

If you use the search tool in this forum, you will find many suggestions and recommendations for your wax. I doubt the brand of CO has anything to do with your HT issue at the dose amount you used. Before you start thinking about additives, I'd suggest reevaluating your wick size.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Stella1952

[beccakatzen]

I suspect if yours are burning faster that you may be overwicking and burning off the FO.

Stella I believe you are right! After reading this I kept thinking, "but these are the wicks that CS recommended with my wax and container size." Well I went back to their website and their wick guide and you are right! The wick I'm using is one wick sizes up from what I should be using. Somehow when I selected the container size the selection must have changed b/c it recommended I use an ECO 14 when I should be using an ECO 10. The opening of the conatiner is 2.5" with total diameter being 3". That really sucks because they are closed now until Monday and I can't test anything.

Does anyone know of a retail store that might sell ECO wicks? I've looked online at Michaels, A.C. Moore and Hobby Lobby but can't seem to find them.... Big' ol crap! But hopefully the problem is solved and by getting the correct size wicks things should get better. I do have a larger container 3" diameter that I am trying with the same set up as before (other than I increased the FO to 1.3 oz/lb. Also I bought the Lou Anna CO and it does seem softer than what I was using and the color is different. So far so good, currently the candle is cooling, but smells great! I'll keep you all posted on how it turns out and how my candles turn out with the correct wicks! :rolleyes2

Edited December 10, 2010 by beccakatzen
additional information

[Gdawg]

if you were looking at buying online from michales why not just but online from Peaks or candle science or any other candle place that sells things for candles and not a craft store, that would be your best route to take and then you can get sample packs of different sizes

[beccakatzen]

if you were looking at buying online from michales why not just but online from Peaks or candle science or any other candle place that sells things for candles and not a craft store, that would be your best route to take and then you can get sample packs of different sizes

Hi, sorry I guess I should have clarified. I was looking online that those stores b/c I could go to them today and buy the wicks. I get all my stuff from Candlescience.com and lucky for me they are only a half hour from my house so I can go same day and pick up my items! SO AWESOME:yay:

But sadly they are closed on the weekends and I was wanting to get some ECO 10's tomorrow (I had planned on making a bunch of candles this weekend and am very sad that I bought the wrong wick size!!!) So it kinda blew my Saturday plans of knocking out 20 or so candles

[Ravens]

OMG, Candle Science only half an hour away from your house? That would be just plain dangerous for me; I'd end up second-mortgaging our home! I would have a ball there, I'd go nuts!! No self-control when it comes to FOs... You lucky girl!

[beccakatzen]

OMG, Candle Science only half an hour away from your house? That would be just plain dangerous for me; I'd end up second-mortgaging our home! I would have a ball there, I'd go nuts!! No self-control when it comes to FOs... You lucky girl!

Oh I know!!:yay: I had already chosen CS to get my supplies from and then when I went to check my shipping method I saw that local pick up was an option and that they were only half an hour away from me! It has been so awesome to just place an order and go pick it up! I do have to take off of work, or leave early to go there though and yes I end up going more often than I should. The whole, "Oh I really need some more containers...well since I'm going I should get this, and this, and this....but it's about the only thing I spend money on now so I feel it's justified.

[IwantItgreen]

I get all my stuff from Candlescience.com and lucky for me they are only a half hour from my house so I can go same day and pick up my items!

Then you have the very knowledgeable employees at CS at your disposal also. So handy, WOW. There's nothing like being able to speak face to face with someone for advice and suggestions. Lucky girl!

[beccakatzen]

Ok update on the candles. Let me first say I think I'm in love with tempering! I did not do this on purpose. For some reason the FO and wax did not bind properly with one of the candles. Not really sure what happened but I re-melted the candle, poured it back into my pouring pot, heated to 185 again and then let it cool to 100 (this was suggested to me by somone who had some beautiful candles with GB464) and I have never seen such a beautiful candle! The surface is smooth and creamy looking and as of now (4 hours after solidifying) there are no signs of frosting. Just need to let it cure for a few days, and then we'll see how the HT is! I believe pooring at 100 for GB464 is working wonders for me! I just hate the wait for the cooling

[Gdawg]

I am so jealous that you are so close to a wonerful supplier and good luck with your patience on the waiting process lol

IwantItgreen are you in the middle of a blizzard watch lol I am in South Dakota too and brings me back to JEALOUS that becca is so close to a supplier...shipping kills me!

[IwantItgreen]

IwantItgreen are you in the middle of a blizzard watch lol I am in South Dakota too and brings me back to JEALOUS that becca is so close to a supplier...shipping kills me!

Yes, it's windy out there! And snowing of course lol. Where you at in SD?

I'm SW of Mitchell about 40 miles. You are right about shipping. I map googled Peaks and BCN and I am exactly in the middle of each, ... by 550 miles! I think they are the closest from my wax. I do know that NorthStar is in MN and they have some soy waxes, but haven't ordered from them yet. Then there's Midwest Candles Supply over in central IA, but have poor cs. So I stay with Peak & BCN. What about you?