RMullen99 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 (edited) Hi Everyone....I had a question about Petro as an additive. I know this helps with adhesion and helps with a larger melt pool but does this weaken the scent throw? Since its basically micro and oil, I am assuming it holds more FO therefor binds it. TIA Edited December 7, 2010 by RMullen99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 I used petrolatum for adhesion problems when the soy was very brittle due to drought. I didn't notice any change in fo quality. I still have a block of "Stickum" as it was called by the distributor. HTHSteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMullen99 Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 I used petrolatum for adhesion problems when the soy was very brittle due to drought. I didn't notice any change in fo quality. I still have a block of "Stickum" as it was called by the distributor. HTHSteve Ok thanks......seems when I use it my HT is weaker.....I thought it would be better due to the larger melt pool the petro would create but I think it was the opposite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Ford Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 I would not expect Petrolatum to increase FO holding ability. There is a lot of mineral oil suspended within pet - depending on how much Pet you add - you could be increasing your overall "oil' content by a significant amount. Another issue you need to watch out for is Viscosity - if too much is used, you could negatively effect wick performance. Micro is the other large component and has a much higher vis than paraffin. Your finished blend could thick enough (high vis) that it would not flow up the wick well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMullen99 Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 (edited) I would not expect Petrolatum to increase FO holding ability. There is a lot of mineral oil suspended within pet - depending on how much Pet you add - you could be increasing your overall "oil' content by a significant amount. Another issue you need to watch out for is Viscosity - if too much is used, you could negatively effect wick performance. Micro is the other large component and has a much higher vis than paraffin. Your finished blend could thick enough (high vis) that it would not flow up the wick well.Hey Brad....if I was looking at say a J50 wax, I dont think this wax has alot of petro....i think it seems to have a "taffy" like blend compared to a comfort blend. Would I assume that they used a higher level of micro and may have diluted it with mineral oil to make it softer? Does that make any sense? I used a basic recipe of container full, 30 % Petro and 2% vybar with 1oz of FO and though it setup nice, the throw was weak. I backed down the vybar and tried again but the throw was still weak. It also had ripples on top which to me looked like to much vybar? I eliminated the vybar but still a weak throw...I can believe I cant make a straight basic paraffin blend that throws ok....what am I doing wrong...any suggestions? Thanks! Sorry my FO was from Peaks so I know it was a good scent. I use 3 inch tumblers. Tried multiple wicks...cd's, cotton core, lx's....TIA Edited December 10, 2010 by RMullen99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Ford Posted December 10, 2010 Share Posted December 10, 2010 If J50 has any pet it's not much...micro is the real variable here.Micro is nothing like paraffin. Paraffin - regardless of melt point or refiner - will just about have the same Vis and Pen number (hardness)...there are exceptions of course.Micro can melt as low as 130F or as high as 200F. It can be soft and sticky or hard as a table top. The viscosity can vary quite a bit as well. So, without knowing what micro is used in the available candle blends - it becomes a guessing game when adding other materials. J50 obviously uses a softer micro that also has a slight tack.Micro will bind fragrance - which is a good thing, but it can also be slow to release it. Mineral Oil will soften a wax blend, thin the visc, but also reduce the amount of FO the blend can hold.Pet is a double edged sword - we do offer one blend that does not have any for just such reasons. For performance reasons I would look to cut your amount in half to around 15% - however I know it does benefit appearance/adhesion.Polyboost (our product)/Vybar is a helpful tuning aid - but as you have found out - there certainly can be too much of a good thing. 2% is normally way too much. I would stay around 0.5% in typical circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMullen99 Posted December 10, 2010 Author Share Posted December 10, 2010 If J50 has any pet it's not much...micro is the real variable here.Micro is nothing like paraffin. Paraffin - regardless of melt point or refiner - will just about have the same Vis and Pen number (hardness)...there are exceptions of course.Micro can melt as low as 130F or as high as 200F. It can be soft and sticky or hard as a table top. The viscosity can vary quite a bit as well. So, without knowing what micro is used in the available candle blends - it becomes a guessing game when adding other materials. J50 obviously uses a softer micro that also has a slight tack.Micro will bind fragrance - which is a good thing, but it can also be slow to release it. Mineral Oil will soften a wax blend, thin the visc, but also reduce the amount of FO the blend can hold.Pet is a double edged sword - we do offer one blend that does not have any for just such reasons. For performance reasons I would look to cut your amount in half to around 15% - however I know it does benefit appearance/adhesion.Polyboost (our product)/Vybar is a helpful tuning aid - but as you have found out - there certainly can be too much of a good thing. 2% is normally way too much. I would stay around 0.5% in typical circumstances.Thanks Brad for all your help.....i have IGI2281, 125 mp from C&S(straight paraffin) and container full(candlewic). My micro is micro 845 from candlewic.......what would be the most amount you would add of micro to the base parrafin assuming 15% will be petro.....I also noticed some of the glass on j50 has a tiny bit of frosting so they may add alittle beeswax or soy to their mix as well...what do you think? What blend do you have with out the petro that you mentioned? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Ford Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 If you are using Vybar or Polyboost - keep your Micro percentages on the low end. They are both used to accomplish similar goals. As a general rule, keep micro below 10%. With Micro added you can cut your Vybar amount a good bit too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricofAZ Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 See, I'm not used to these numbers like 10 percent vybar. I use some vybar from time to time but about 8 globs (1/4 tspn) is fine for a half pound. There is a recommended max for vybar and I'm pretty sure it isn't anywhere near 10 percent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMullen99 Posted December 14, 2010 Author Share Posted December 14, 2010 See, I'm not used to these numbers like 10 percent vybar. I use some vybar from time to time but about 8 globs (1/4 tspn) is fine for a half pound. There is a recommended max for vybar and I'm pretty sure it isn't anywhere near 10 percent. Hi Eric.....that was showing under 10% of Micro not vybar:cheesy2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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