464 Or 444(Which do you think throws better)

[ky-sam]

Has anyone compared the 464 and the 444 for cold and hot throw?

[soy327]

I haven't compared the two but I think the only difference is one 464 has a lower melt point. I use the 464 and blend with xcel and I love the hot throw. Hope that helps.

Soy

[beans]

What is the percent of the blend??

[soy327]

Well I was doing 50/50, I just made some smaller jars at 75/25 464/xcel and poured at about 115-118. The tops came out very smooth and creamy, they are curing.

[beans]

I was doing straight 464 and having major frosting issues. H T was excellent. Im using C3 and Excel ADV. mixed 75 /25 . So far nearly no frosting issues. Still curing them but C t was pretty good before I put the lids on them. I may be going to 464 / excel blend if these dont throw.

Edited October 2, 2010 by beans

[LuminousBoutique]

I love the throw from my 464... I dont have frosting issues but I also dont use color. I add 1tsp coconut oil pp for lighter scents.

[beans]

Being new at this I do love 464 throw. It filled the entire house. Just couldnt get a pour temp that wouldnt frost.

[scifichik]

Thanks for the tip! I like the 464 because my local supplier carries it at a great price, but most colors give me major frosting issues. CT and HT are great, though.

They also started carrying EcoSoya, but it's more expensive. I'm going to try a blend after I make my next supply run.

[EricofAZ]

Ok, I have both of these waxes here including C3 and CB135. I'm going to try an experiment with a scent that I think is pretty strong. 4 oz in a tumbler of each wax with the exact same amount of FO - 10 ml (hot buttered rum from Berts - Whoa!). The same wick (CD10 for the 2.5 inch diameter tumbler). No dye. All poured at about 165 degrees or so. FO added at about 180 or so.

I'll let you know.

Edited October 4, 2010 by EricofAZ
accuracy

[mrsadler05]

Ok, I have both of these waxes here including C3 and CB135. I'm going to try an experiment with a scent that I think is pretty strong. 4 oz in a tumbler of each wax with the exact same amount of FO - 10 ml (hot buttered rum from Berts - Whoa!). The same wick (CD10 for the 2.5 inch diameter tumbler). No dye. All poured at about 165 degrees or so. FO added at about 180 or so.

I'll let you know.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! This is the kind of post I have been searching for. I know everyone has their own opinion about the wax they choose but it has been hard to find someone who has done exact comparisons with each wax like you are doing.

I am completely new to candle making and currently I am working through a case of 444. I bought it because of the high melt point. I live in the New Orleans area and the heat and humidity will be a real problem most of the year.

It seems like most people are using the 464 and like the HT. I have been thinking about trying it too.

I can't wait to read your findings!

[pixie]

EricofAz, I am eagerly awaiting your results. I have tried the cb 135, the C-3 and gb 415. I've yet to try the 444 or 464. Out of the ones I've tried, the 415 gave me the best throw but the c-3 gave me a better looking candle (before and after burning) and the cb 135 was the easiest to wick.

Your set up looks good and you have a good variety of waxes there. Cant wait to hear what you think.

[EricofAZ]

So tonight I snipped the wicks and here's another picture. My nose is into dinner so I can't say what kind of CT these have, but they all smell about the same. I'll take them to work in the morning and see what the co-workers say. Seems to me that the first one I sniff is the strongest and the last the weakest and it doesn't matter where I start or end.

Remember, as you look at the image, left to right,

444, CB135, 464, C3

They all have good adhesion to the glass. All about the same color. The two on the right have flat tops, the two on the left have very slight irregularities and that might be because they were jostled during the cooling phase, not sure.

The 444 is the hardest to the touch. None deform when I press down but they all make a good fingerprint. In terms of surface hardness, the 444 is the clear leader of hardness, followed by 464, C3 then CB135 in close contest.

Held up to the light, they all look creamy but the 444 has a slight mottling effect in the wax.

Edited October 5, 2010 by EricofAZ

[beans]

Well I was doing 50/50, I just made some smaller jars at 75/25 464/xcel and poured at about 115-118. The tops came out very smooth and creamy, they are curing.

With your 50/50 mix what temp were you adding your F O??

[EricofAZ]

I have one CT test today but will gather more before releasing results. Today my tester sniffed coffee beans between containers and mixed up the order later in the day and she did this several times. She clearly has identified the strongest in her opinion. She thought at first she identified the weakest but further tests caused her to change her opinion on the weakest. She never waivered on the strongest.

I have another tester tomorrow. Will follow the same procedure, coffee, sniff, coffee, sniff, coffee.... ... do it again... etc.

By PM request, I'll record some info on the burn pool size over time (to decide if the wick is correct, under or over).

The challenge will be the HT test. Probably need to do that outside.

[EricofAZ]

Ok, we had a total of 5 testers for the cold throw that mixed up the candles in different order, sniffed coffee between, and took multiple tries at it.

Here are the results:

4 of the 5 agreed that the C3 had the strongest CT by far, like leaps and bounds. One thought CB 135 was the strongest.

There was no pattern to the rest and we have no agreement as to the weakest, though everyone thought they had identified a weak candle. Two thought 444 was the weakest, two thought CB135 was the weakest, and one thought 464 was the weakest.

I'll start a burn test tonight and time it for 4 hours.

Personally, I think the Naturewax C3 is the strongest and I agree that the rest are so close together it is tough to choose.

Edited October 7, 2010 by EricofAZ

[soy327]

Beans, About 165-170 I am doing the 75/25, 464/xcel I like it the best. 1tsp pp uv and that is it. Pouring at 110 or lower. Sometimes a little air bubble around the wick that I use the heat gun on very lightly.

Soy

[mrsadler05]

Ok, we had a total of 5 testers for the cold throw that mixed up the candles in different order, sniffed coffee between, and took multiple tries at it.

Here are the results:

4 of the 5 agreed that the C3 had the strongest CT by far, like leaps and bounds. One thought CB 135 was the strongest.

There was no pattern to the rest and we have no agreement as to the weakest, though everyone thought they had identified a weak candle. Two thought 444 was the weakest, two thought CB135 was the weakest, and one thought 464 was the weakest.

I'll start a burn test tonight and time it for 4 hours.

Personally, I think the Naturewax C3 is the strongest and I agree that the rest are so close together it is tough to choose.

Thanks, again, for keeping us up to date on your findings. I can't wait to see what your final results of the HT test are.

Leigh

[EricofAZ]

Well, aaaaaallllllrrrrrriiiigghhttyyyyyy then! (Jim Carey says it better.)

The 4 hour burn is concluded. I don't have good HT info at this time, will need to figure out a new test for HT. My freakishly small kitchen did smell like Hot Buttered Rum, but not as strong as I would have expected with 4 candles burning (then again, its soy, which is a FO killer).

So.

You can see from the photos what wax was placed where and the marks for diameter.

I lit them all off with the fake Rolex Submariner at 12:00 ish.

[EricofAZ]

At about the 7 minute mark, all had achieved a 1 inch pool diameter but the 464 reached 1 1/4 inch. The C-3 had some light sweating.

444 had the lightest color and C3 the darkest. I added no dye but the FO had some yellow to it.

[EricofAZ]

Around the 15 minute mark, all were at 1 1/4 inch pool dia with 464 as the leader at 1.6 inch pool dia. by 20 minutes C3 had a lot of sweating. CB135 and 464 light sweating. 444 no sweating. At the 45 minute mark, all looked the same for pool diameter.

Edited October 7, 2010 by EricofAZ

[EricofAZ]

At the 1:40 time, 464 had full wall to wall pool with a substantial mushroom forming. Same with CB135. C3 was almost wall to wall and a small 'shroom. 444 had 1/8 inch to go laterally with no mushroom.

[EricofAZ]

at 2:40, all were edge to edge in the glass for pool and starting to go deep. 464 was 1/4 inch deep. CB135 and C3 were 3/16 deep and 444 was 1/8 deep.

[EricofAZ]

more pics.

[EricofAZ]

More photos....

[EricofAZ]

at the 4 hour mark I blew out the candles. My kitchen did kinda smell like hot buttered rum, but not as strong as I expected.

464 had a huge mushroom, wick down for the future. C3 and CB135 had shrooms too. 444 did not.

I used an IR gun to check temps of the pool after the wicks were extinguished.

464 at the base of the wick was 113 degrees a couple of minutes after extinguishing.

C3 was 119

135 was 111

444 was 123

I am not sure how to do a HT test. My initial observation after smelling during the burn and more so after extinguishing the wick was:

C3 strongest, next was 135, 464, 444. All were weaker than the CT.

Edited October 7, 2010 by EricofAZ