HELP - Frustrated as to why this happened?

[Toni S.]

I've been making CP for several years and I've always used the liquid gel tones for colorants. I, by no means put myself in the category of some of you "Soap Queens"..... So I really need some advise. This year I switched over to the Pop Micas and I'm not really happy with the results of my swirls. Coloring is fantastic BUT I'm not pleased with the texture! After cutting and curing the bars, the swirled portion is brittle, almost rock hard compared to the rest of the bar? You can't really tell by looking at it, only when I trim the bars. What could I have done wrong????

[Scented]

Wow, not sure. What are you doing to mix your pops into your soap? Just adding it straight? Mixing with oils? Mixing with glycerin? I do the latter, but I know people who do the first one too. I've not noticed a problem. Might happen if I use too much though, but it just doesn't get brittle.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Scented

[Starr]

I use tons of pop micas in my soaps and haven't noticed a problem with them being brittle.

It could depend on how you're adding them in though.

[Toni S.]

I add the micas straight into the portion I saved for the swirls:sad2:

[LuminousBoutique]

Maybe too much Mica? I havent had that happen but thats all I can come up with is that the Mica is somehow affecting the soap, affecting gel maybe?

[Scented]

Really odd Toni. How much are you adding? Not thinking you're adding a lot to make anything brittle if you're just going for swirls. Any chance something else could be going wrong?

[topofmurrayhill]

Maybe it has nothing to do with the mica. But it would have to be something else that's unique to the swirl portion you're taking out of the soap. Maybe just that it cools off more. What sort of recipe is it?

[Toni S.]

TOP - Here's my recipe!

20 oz Canola oil

11 oz Coconut oil

8 oz Olive oil

8 oz Soy oil

1 oz Shea Butter

8 oz Water (Don't do quite a 50/50 discount!)

6.6 oz Lye

Soap at RT in wood log molds covered with lids

SCENTED:

I've been reserving 4oz for swirls and using roughly 1 Pinch to 1 Dash (Measuring Spoons from BCN) of Mica.

I have a couple fragrances that I do a reverse swirl and added 1 TBS. Gold Mica to the Base Recipe, measured out the amount for the swirl and then added the FO to remaining oils. These seem to be the ones that turned out the hardest??

I'm probably just doing something "dumb" but can't figure out what!!!*shudder*

I'd sure like to get this figured out?????????????? AGAIN, this only happens with the micas and never the gels!

Edited March 14, 2010 by Toni S.

[Starr]

Well, it COULD maybe be too much mica. I think I use roughly 1-2TB in a 2-3lb batch of soap.

[Toni S.]

I searched and searched on the web last night to see if I could find any info on any guidelines for the amount of mica to use with no success. Everything just said to "add mica"..............

[Starr]

Start with smaller amounts. Remember, you can add more but subtracting is much more difficult.

If you're using TKB's mica's, they're VERY good and don't often take a whole lot.

[Toni S.]

I use mostly TKB's Pop Micas & BCN's Micas!

[Meridith]

Sounds like its possible you used too much colorant but that's a guess. Also, your canola amount seems a bit high to me. Do you have a problem with your soap getting DOS?

Many on this board actually make and sell soap for a living. They are good for getting advice and guidance.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Meridith

[CareBear]

TOP - Here's my recipe!

20 oz Canola oil

11 oz Coconut oil

8 oz Olive oil

8 oz Soy oil

1 oz Shea Butter

8 oz Water (Don't do quite a 50/50 discount!)

6.6 oz Lye

Soap at RT in wood log molds covered with lids

apologies for going OT, but don't you get DOS with that formula?

[Meridith]

apologies for going OT, but don't you get DOS with that formula?

That's what I asked.

[Toni S.]

CareBear & Meredith:

No DOS as of yet! Would you suggest I change something? Too much Canola Oil ya think? Suggestions??:confused:

OK, as far as the Micas go, what would you use for 4 oz of swirl? Would you use it straight or mix it with something? HELP!!!

[CareBear]

sorry Meredith didn't see you asking that!

The formula you use is comprised of 75% DOS-prone oils (if you count the OO). I've found that canola OR soy over about 10% tends to get DOS and you have them combined at 58%. Have you bars of this that have been around a while?

[Toni S.]

I've got some bars for my own use that I've had for a couple years and they are fine. Like I said, never had DOS yet!

[topofmurrayhill]

It depends on where you get your canola oil. If it's the oleic variety, no DOS. Same with sunflower and safflower.

[CareBear]

It depends on where you get your canola oil. If it's the oleic variety, no DOS. Same with sunflower and safflower.

true true!

[Scented]

I think it takes more than an oil to cause DOS, except if it's an old oil. I also don't use canola any more either, but I use a lot of the other oils you do and I haven't had DOS on bars that are three years old and some that are four. Only time I ever got it was when it was petrifyingly humid here and the a/c quit ... all four batches developed that DOS, but that was back when I was experimenting with recipes and canola was about 12-15%. Prairieannie had some posts back in like 2005 I think it was, maybe 2006 on DOS if interested.

Onto the color, so you're pulling out basically 1/4 cup, I'd start with 1/8 tsp (see if you even like the color or think it's strong enough.) If you don't like it, add another 1/8 to get to 1/4 tsp and see what you think. The great thing about POPS are you can add more straight to the soap and they incorporated well and easily. Other colors, I don't find that to be true. And with the POPs, I find I have to use more of the grape, tangerine and lemon to get what I feel is a decent color. I typically use about 1/2 to 1 tsp, but I'm pulling more than 4 oz too. As for gold micas ... I overload on it to get that shimmery, shiny effect and it does get a little harder that other parts of the soap, but it's also exposed to the air longer. It's never come out brittle except on occasions when it raced to trace, then the whole soap turns brittle and ends up in the can.

If I'm not mistaken, Meridith adds her pops to the soap? Thought I read that once before, but don't take my word on it. Wait for her to answer

I still mix all of my POPs and most other micas with a dab of veg. glycerin, except ultramarines will go into a small portion of the oil pulled from the batch. That's just been my success rate. Oxides, most will do fine in vg, except for black. Had more success with it in oil.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Scented

[Toni S.]

Scented -

Thanks so much for the wealth of information!! What oil would you recommend in place of the Canola if I were to switch?

Wonder if it could be that I didn't mix the micas in well enough? It sure seems like I did though??? The 1/8 tsp. is about all I used in the 4 oz I pulled out for swirls, maybe a tad more at times but not much more.

Top - I do use the Oleci variety so that explains why I'm not getting DOS?

Thanks so much again for all the help! Appreciate it...:

Edited March 14, 2010 by Toni S.

[Starr]

nevermind

Edited March 14, 2010 by Starr
Scented beat me to it.

[Meridith]

I think it takes more than an oil to cause DOS, except if it's an old oil. I also don't use canola any more either, but I use a lot of the other oils you do and I haven't had DOS on bars that are three years old and some that are four. Only time I ever got it was when it was petrifyingly humid here and the a/c quit ... all four batches developed that DOS, but that was back when I was experimenting with recipes and canola was about 12-15%. Prairieannie had some posts back in like 2005 I think it was, maybe 2006 on DOS if interested.

Onto the color, so you're pulling out basically 1/4 cup, I'd start with 1/8 tsp (see if you even like the color or think it's strong enough.) If you don't like it, add another 1/8 to get to 1/4 tsp and see what you think. The great thing about POPS are you can add more straight to the soap and they incorporated well and easily. Other colors, I don't find that to be true. And with the POPs, I find I have to use more of the grape, tangerine and lemon to get what I feel is a decent color. I typically use about 1/2 to 1 tsp, but I'm pulling more than 4 oz too. As for gold micas ... I overload on it to get that shimmery, shiny effect and it does get a little harder that other parts of the soap, but it's also exposed to the air longer. It's never come out brittle except on occasions when it raced to trace, then the whole soap turns brittle and ends up in the can.

If I'm not mistaken, Meridith adds her pops to the soap? Thought I read that once before, but don't take my word on it. Wait for her to answer

I do add my POPs to the soap I took off. Even if coloring the whole batch or a larger portion one color, I still take a bit of raw soap off, add the colorant and stir in really well and then stir that into the portion I'm wanting to color. I don't like to add it to a large portion and stir it in. I rather add it to a smaller amount which is then added to the portion I'm coloring. I use to disperse it with glycerin but I found that it made no difference with the POPs. With other power colorants, I either disperse with water or glycerin.

But I recently changed it a bit. I now add a drop of liquid soap to the part of the soap batch I"m coloring when I'm working with my POPs, ultramarines and micas. I have found that it does seem to help break the colorant down and mix better with the raw soap. I have my ultramarines already mixed with glycerin in a bottle.

Based on my experience, I would recommend only using canola at 10% but I have read where some say they use it at 15% with no problems.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Meridith

[Toni S.]

Thank you so much Meridith:smiley2: