jonsie Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 This is my first post here, and I want to start off by saying how much I love this forum! I've learned so much just from reading and searching that I haven't had to post a question since I created my account weeks ago until now.I am a newbie with candle making and I am trying my best to work through the learning process as methodically as possible. I've created a spreadsheet to document all the stats for each batch I do, as well as another sheet to document the candle aesthetics and burn results. Y'all are good teachers!My main problem for now is I constantly get a small flame and the subsequent small melt pool. I'm testing just plain GW464 with no dyes, FO, or additives at this point. From reading here on the forum, wick size plays a big part of the flame and MP size. So BESIDES wick size, what other factors can I tweak in something like 464 to help improve the flame/MP?Such as, do I need to use some additives? Do I need to pour at a lower/higher temperature? Do I need to extend the cooling period? Do I need to cure longer? Should I temper?I respect that y'all have done a lot of testing at your own expense so I'm not asking for a magic number; I'm just asking for the area to tweak in order to increase flame/MP.Thanks in advance!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Such as, do I need to use some additives? Do I need to pour at a lower/higher temperature? Do I need to extend the cooling period? Do I need to cure longer? Should I temper?***chuckle***How's about just telling us what shape & inside diameter measurment of the container you are using and the wick type & size? It just sounds like you may need to wick up a size or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 ***chuckle***How's about just telling us what shape & inside diameter measurment of the container you are using and the wick type & size? It just sounds like you may need to wick up a size or so...Ack! I was trying to avoid having to admit what I was doing! Well, I'm focusing on wooden wicks for now. I know from reading here on the forum that the wooden wicks are generally considered fadish and a liability, and despite all of that, I would still like to pursue them. Whew! Having confessed that, the specifics of my problem are that I am using the large-size wooden wick (~0.5" wide) in a 3-1/8" diameter glass container. Much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 You sure are a glutton for punishment Beginning with wooden wicks is probably not the greatest idea. I have experimented with them, and its really hit and miss with the wood wicks and soy. They generally dont seem to burn real well at all.You may get the odd scent that they work ok in, but it is a lot of trial and error and expense to find out what works and what doesnt.Good luck with it, but if you would like a good piece of advice, quite while you are only a little way behind and get yourself some CDN wicks to play with in soy. Wood wicks just dont work well Im afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Good luck with it, but if you would like a good piece of advice, quite while you are only a little way behind and get yourself some CDN wicks to play with in soy. Wood wicks just dont work well Im afraid.Thank you Richard I always remember the good advice and I don't mind admitting defeat. And I don't mind being defeated by soy wax. But I'm gonna continue to focus on the wooden wicks for a bit longer, even if it means changing to palm or parrafin.So despite my quixotic goals, I'm begging that we exclude the role of the wicks (although I know they play a big one), and if possible focus on other factors like I suggested above. Many thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Well I have to say good luck with it.If you experiment with palm, it tends to go the other way with a huge flame. I was playing with the 16 oz apothecary jars, 4" diameter. Only a few scents worked in soy, pretty much all worked in palm but with a huge flame, and that was even when I went down a size to the medium.In any case I will be very curious to follow your progress as despite my suggestions to get some "standard" wicks I am still playing with the wood wicks myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Thanks, Richard! It's nice to see that you are in Australia. I'm an American but I moved to Perth about a year ago. We are here for about another three years (my husband is here on a work visa) and I am home taking care of our daughter. Now that she is starting Kindy, I thought I'd pick up a hobby. I noticed there weren't very many wooden wick candles around here (if any) so I thought I'd let that be my niche. My niche may very well have to change but I wanted to give it a good try.I have a 5 kg bag of palm crystallising container wax that I'll try soon. But I wanted to exhaust my soy options before giving up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 We were im Perth for 3 years. Came back home to the East Coast last June. Where abouts in Perth are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 I haven't visited Sydney yet but what we've seen of Perth so far we really like! We are living in the Subi area near where my husband works. Great place. You can probably also guess who my supplier is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candybee Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 (edited) Have you tried blending some parrafin into your soy? Don't know for sure if that will help with the wood wick but it can't hurt. A parasoy blend can resolve some issues with soy such as frosting, rough tops, scent throw, and wicking. If you are willing to try other waxes this may be a good solution for you so you can still continue using soy. Incidentally Virginia Candle company that started the wood wick candle uses a 'soy blend'.I prefer a 50/50 blend but found I also had good results with using 25% parrafin and 75% soy. You could start out with 5% increments and continue until you find a blend that works for your wood wicks. Edited February 14, 2010 by Candybee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Subi is not too bad. I used to work in West Perth and we lived up in Gooseberry Hill, hence the name for our business Yes I reckon I know pretty well who your supplier is. They are great people to deal with. I still get some scents, all of my wicks and our soy wax from over there.Many of our scents we import direct from the States as there is such a small selection available here. NCS is Sydney does have some nice scents, so worth checking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Have you tried blending some parrafin into your soy? Don't know for sure if that will help with the wood wick but it can't hurt. A parasoy blend can resolve some issues with soy such as frosting, rough tops, scent throw, and wicking. If you are willing to try other waxes this may be a good solution for you so you can still continue using soy. Incidentally Virginia Candle company that started the wood wick candle uses a 'soy blend'.That is really good to know, thanks! I may also give some coconut oil a try but I need to find some around here first. No Walmarts to pop into around here Yes I reckon I know pretty well who your supplier is. They are great people to deal with. I still get some scents, all of my wicks and our soy wax from over there.That is VERY reassuring! Any possibility of them supplying wooden wicks? Right now I am having them mailed from the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Nope no chance I dont think. I get mine from the States also, along with about 70% of our scents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted February 15, 2010 Author Share Posted February 15, 2010 Aah, thanks Richard. I can respect that.Well, I melted down some test 464 candles that had no FO or dye, added some CO, poured using the same stats as before, and my first test candle (only sat for 3 hours) burned great! Actually, it's too large of a flame, and I had a full melt pool in 2 hours on the first burn. I'll test the rest of the test candles from that batch over the next few days to see if there is any difference.I also melted some virgin 415 flakes, only added the CO, and poured some more tests. I started burning one after sitting for 3 hours and it had a full melt pool within one hour. So I'm excited! And I know I shouldn't be because soy can be fickle but I am just so pleased to see a pretty flame! Time to get some fresh 464 flakes and work on improving the results.Thanks everyone for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 I started burning one after sitting for 3 hours and it had a full melt pool within one hour. Not so fast, grasshopper... First, let your candles sit at least 24 hours before burning. The candle has to be absolutely cool all the way through before testing or the results will not be accurate. Second, the newly formed wax crystals need a chance to harden somewhat before testing, again to prevent skewed results.There's no race for FMP with soy. A FMP in one hour (or even 2) in a 3+" container is burning too hot and fast. It should take at least 3+ hours to achieve FMP.I understand your excitement, but slow down a little and test your candles carefully.I'm not gonna say a word about the wood wicks because you already have read the admonitions about them...Please do get some CDNs and test *real* wicks in your candles, too. I think you'll be well pleased at how much more accurate regular wicks are than wood wicks, even though the wood wicks do look mondo cool. What matters most is that you are having fun making things that you enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Have to agree with Stella. You need to let your candles sit for at least 24 hours, preferably longer.Yes I certainly know how hard it is once you have made something, you want to burn it to see how it performs. Unless you wait for the wax to do its thing, the test is going to be invalid and will need to be done again anyway.I poured 17 testers last night and cant wait to start testing them, as some are sents that I have wanted to test for a long time and just havent had the chance. Now the problem is which ones to test first....LOL. If it were just a wick test I could go ahead and light them alltogether, however this is also a throw test so patience in this case is definitely a virtue Good luck and let us know how it is all going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted February 16, 2010 Author Share Posted February 16, 2010 Thank you Stella and Richard As y'all can imagine, it's going slowly but I'm absolutely loving it! When I first thought about pursuing candles I had no idea all of the research and testing that went into it, but I'm finding that I really dig it. Even with the failures I'm still enjoying the process, and I think y'all got my expectations in reasonable shape before I poured my first candle, lol. I haven't poured any palm today but I did do some 415 with the wooden wicks (without any CO) and I was pleased with the early results. The candles were sure ugly once they set, which is something I have to learn more about with 415, but I'm encouraged by how it works with the wicks. Still no FO or dye today, but I'm itching to start that sometime soon. I just don't want to waste money on FO on combos that may or may not work. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I understand your reluctance to spend money (picked a bad hobby on that count) but what happens if you get your wax and wick down and then are disappointed by the poor cold/hot throw? Buy a sampler of 1 or 2 oz fos and begin testing the full formula of wax, wick, jar and fo. Personally, I would go with a really simple jar, such as an 8 oz jelly for starters. You can pick them up for nearly nothing and re-use them in your testing process. I would throw out test wax rather than melt it. The structure of the wax has been changed and your results are not going to be dependable. Pick a formula and work it until you know all there is to know about it. Pre-blended parasoy is really your best bet IMHO. Later on you can always play with your own personal blend.Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted February 19, 2010 Author Share Posted February 19, 2010 Hi Steve! Thanks for the advice, I think you are right about finding a jar size and sticking with it. I think my problem is I found too big of one to start with! The 3" is just too mammoth to run repeated tests on.... shame on me for not listening to the suggestions here.Since I started to see some good results with the 464, I bit the bullet and bought 50# (huge commitment for me!) and been running all my tests on new wax. Now I gotta wonder what to do with the 40+ testers on my kitchen table... yikes! I'm gonna pull a Scarlet O'Hara and worry about that another day. Overall it's going well, and I'm still having a blast. But life gets in the way sometimes and I couldn't pour or burn any candles in the past day and a half. It felt strange! Once this busy weekend is out of the way I hope to be back on track. Best of luck to all of you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 19, 2010 Share Posted February 19, 2010 (edited) Now I gotta wonder what to do with the 40+ testers on my kitchen table... You can place these in an oven set on low (175°F) to remelt the wax. Once liquid, carefully pour the wax into a single container to save for future use. Remove the wicks, wipe out the jars with paper towels while still warm, then wash the containers in HOT, soapy water, rinse well and dry to reuse for other testers. I use my reclaimed glassware over and over for testing and my own personal candles (I never sell used glassware to customers). You can use the reclaimed wax for personal candles or for other projects, such as scented wax melts (tarts), fire starters, etc. HTH But life gets in the way sometimes and I couldn't pour or burn any candles in the past day and a half. I HATE when life gets in the way of my fun!! Hope you get to have more fun SOON!! Edited February 19, 2010 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Thank you Stella! It's time for me to melt some of these down because I don't want to commit any more glassware to testers than I have to. Once liquid, carefully pour the wax into a single container to save for future use.What kind of container do you suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I just use a heavy plastic container - anything that will hold the wax and be easy to get it out of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Stella, thank you for your time and your patience! You are a saint... and that's a HUGE compliment from me :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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