The scent is different now

[Ravens]

Ok, hard as it may be to believe, the candle I poured the day before yesterday and that I'm testing tonight is... weird.

I used one of the FO from Daystar; it's one I've used many, many times before, always to make tarts.

So the other day I thought I'd make one of those heart shaped candles (bought the glass at Walmart for $1 a piece); put 3 zinc wicks (51z); the wax I used is the IGI 6006. The wax I normally use to make tarts is CBL129, or 4786 or the one from The Candlesource. This fragrance smells GREAT in all these waxes.

Well, I sniffed the cold candle made with the 6006 and did not really like what I smelled. Now it's burning, full melt pool, no smoking, unless I start waving it around, but the scent is so very different. All I can think is that it's the 6006 that has altered it; is it possible though? Looks pretty and all, but it's not the scent I'm used to:confused:

[radellaf]

Fragrances can have so many different molecules in them that I suppose it's possible the soy component has changed (reduced?) the strength of one scent-component more than another.

[Ravens]

Weird, eh? I tried melting one tart made with the same wax (any leftover wax from the candle I poured into the tart molds), and it's the same funky scent. This morning my daughter came over and I asked her what she thought of the "new" scent. "Hmmm, don't really like it, what is it?" She couldn't believe it's the same scent she is crazy about - yes, it changed that much. Now I'm tempted to try a different scent in the 6006 and see if it also changes... odd; maybe a chemist would have the answer.

[Stella1952]

When you make tarts, the FO is warmed but not ever burned. When you make candles, the FO is not only warmed, but it burns with the wax. How a fragrance smells OOB, in tarts and in candles is frequently 3 different things. Just because something smells one way in a tart does not mean it will smell the same way when burned. The OOB is also frequently very different from how the FO will smell when put into its medium - tart, candle, soap, etc. Different waxes have different throw properties. You have to test in the specific medium you choose to find out how something is gonna smell. What works in one wax may very well not work in another. This is NOT uncommon nor weird. HTH

Edited February 12, 2010 by Stella1952

[Ravens]

Thank you, Stella, what you wrote makes sense. Gee, and to think I believed making candles was a cinch!! :embarasse

[Darbla]

If it's one you recently got, maybe they changed the formula? Made it pthalate free, or went to cheaper ingredients?

[Stella1952]

If it's one you recently got, maybe they changed the formula? Made it pthalate free, or went to cheaper ingredients?

VERY good point, Darbla. I was assuming that the FO Ravens used was the same - from the same bottle as she used for her tarts. If it was a new purchase, that would raise my eyebrow, too. Recently quite a few of the fragrances I've bought over & over again for the past few years have been changed by the supplier - and none for the better! So, if this was a new purchase of an old favorite FO, definitely check out that angle, Ravens!!

[topofmurrayhill]

When you make tarts, the FO is warmed but not ever burned. When you make candles, the FO is not only warmed, but it burns with the wax. How a fragrance smells OOB, in tarts and in candles is frequently 3 different things. Just because something smells one way in a tart does not mean it will smell the same way when burned. The OOB is also frequently very different from how the FO will smell when put into its medium - tart, candle, soap, etc. Different waxes have different throw properties. You have to test in the specific medium you choose to find out how something is gonna smell. What works in one wax may very well not work in another. This is NOT uncommon nor weird. HTH

I'm getting a headache just trying to figure out if you've even addressed Raven's post in all of this.

The poster is saying that when the fragrance oil is poured into a different wax, the cold throw as well as the hot throw is not recognizable as the original scent. I have never experienced that. Generally the scent smells the same in cold throw; at most, just slightly different.

We don't know if this is a new supply of the fragrance oil, or if anything happened to the fragrance oil since the last time it was used that might have changed it. Even if it was an old bottle that hadn't been used in a while.

To solve this mystery, FO from the same bottle should be mixed with one of the original waxes and also with 6006 to see if the two come out different. Just enough to make a few tarts would be fine.

First, if the bottle has been stored in a cold place, I would check for any crystallization at the bottom just to make sure we're pouring all the components of the fragrance.

[Judy, USMC]

...

Well, I sniffed the cold candle made with the 6006 and did not really like what I smelled. Now it's burning, full melt pool, no smoking, unless I start waving it around, but the scent is so very different. All I can think is that it's the 6006 that has altered it; is it possible though? Looks pretty and all, but it's not the scent I'm used to:confused:

I think it's quite possible it could be the wax. This type of problem has been reported by a couple of posters. This is just one thread where it's been discussed: http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72858&highlight=rancid

Although the original topic was soy vs. soy/para blend, Darbla posted her observation regarding a paraffin vs. soy/para blend:

"I posted a question similar to this awhile back. I have IGI 4794 paraffin for votives, and Green Leaf's 70/30 blend for containers. There is definitely a very noticeable difference in scent quality in those waxes. I have poured the same scents in both waxes, and they will smell radically different. Always worse in the soy blend, and better in the paraffin. It's bad enough that I've decided I won't even consider any more soy waxes.

Darbla"

More opinions that support that different waxes may make the FOs smell differently in this thread that Darbla started: http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70634

If the cold throw is different I would expect the hot throw to be different, too. With some FOs I can tell a big difference between waxes ... husband can't. Depends on the smeller's "nose" sensitivity, I guess.

[topofmurrayhill]

Apparently people sometimes smell a big difference versus a subtle difference. I'm not sure if anyone yet has reported a difference that would make the smell unrecognizable, so it would be very interesting if Raven could do a side-by-side with the two different waxes to eliminate any other variables.

[Ravens]

Top, the FO I used is Masquerade Ball from Daystar. I used the same 16oz. bottle for all the tarts I made. Then I tried it with the 6006, no additives, no color, just the FO. Made a candle and tarts with the leftover wax. Both tarts and candle do not smell like the Masquerade Ball I know and love, there's something else in the scent which is rather pukey. So I lit the candle and later melted the tarts. Because I read on these forums that paraffin does not need to cure but 6006 isn't pure paraffin, i let it sit a couple of day, then tried the candle.... yikes! Full melt pool, awful smell (I should add that I had to get very close to the candle to smell it, but hey, wicking is a nightmare for me, so I'm not surprise the candle wasn't throwing).

Melted the tarts, much stronger awful smell. so because of this, all I could think is that it's something in the wax or maybe it's just this particular FO that does not do well in the 6006.

I tried this FO with other waxes; it smells great with the wax from The Candlesource (which, by the way, I found out it contains absolutely zero soy - but they wouldn't say what it does contain...); the FO smells great with the CBL129, and the 4786 also.

I just now remembered that I have some KY parasoy for tarts. I'm going to make some tarts and see what happens. Will let you all know if the scent stays "true". You guys do help a lot! Thank you!:smiley2:

[Stella1952]

The poster is saying that when the fragrance oil is poured into a different wax, the cold throw as well as the hot throw is not recognizable as the original scent.

That's just common sense that it would smell different in both cold and hot throw if the wax alters the scent! Whether one has had the personal experience or not, it isn't inconceivable at all that different formulations of wax would combine to yield different smells using the same FO. How the chemicals in the FO combine with the different ingredients could make a lot of difference in the outcome. Many folks here have complained that they do not like how soy wax smells, period, because it comes with its own "creamy" smell. Because I stick basically to 2 or 3 soy waxes, I have not noticed this as drastically as some have indicated, but that could easily be because they have more sensitive noses than I do and are smelling different waxes than I am. I have noted a big difference occasionally in how a particular FO (from the same bottle) smells from my container wax to my pillar wax to my palm wax. I notice the least amount of difference between palm container wax and palm pillar wax, but soys are a different matter altogether.

there's something else in the scent which is rather pukey

While I have never had one go from smelling pleasant to downright nasty, I have noted that sharper, more citrus-y fragrances smell far more accurate in palm wax than they do in the container soy I use. The nag champa I use, for example, is quite different from one wax to another. Vanillas smell far more "vanilla-y" in soy than they do in palm. The underlying scent of soy, while subtle, is always present and either blends well or not so well with the FO used.

We haven't mentioned additives... for folks using veggie oils as additives, it's important to note the scent of the oil being added. If it is *old* or, god forbid, rancid, I can see how that could make a difference in the final scent of the product made from it.

Ravens, I wish computer technology allowed us to have "smell-o-vision"!! It's so hard to put fragrance into words!! But when you say you have noted this difference, I believe you because my own experience has demonstrated to me that there are such differences! All I can suggest is to avoid using the FO you like in waxes that it doesn't play nice with! Another example of why testing is SOOOO important! Never assume ANYTHING! If a combination is working for you, don't change a thing! Conversely, just because a combo works using one wax is no reason to assume that it'll be all good with another wax. This is true of wicking and dyes, so it's just common sense it could be the same with FOs.

Thanks for sharing this experience with us. When it happens to others, hopefully they won't feel like the Lone Ranger!!

[topofmurrayhill]

Melted the tarts, much stronger awful smell. so because of this, all I could think is that it's something in the wax or maybe it's just this particular FO that does not do well in the 6006.

You've made other stuff with the 6006 and it smells OK?

[Ravens]

Top, I've used 6006 in the past, but always mixed it with some other wax. This is the first time I use straight 6006 with nothing else added (except this FO).

[Stella1952]

Might wanna check & see if other *known* FOs give you similar unpleasant results in the plain 6006... At least you would know whether it's just an anomaly of that particular FO in straight 6006, or if the 6006 has problems with your other favorite FOs... Also, when you mixed it before, did you have problems with the same Masquerade Ball FO?

Edited February 14, 2010 by Stella1952

[Ravens]

Stella, when I mixed 6006 with other waxes, I did not try this particular FO.

Top, I made some tarts with KY parasoy for tarts, 415, C3, and CBL 129. Will test them this evening or tomorrow. Will post the results. Thank you!

[Ravens]

Ok, I searched through all my stack of tarts and found some I had made over the last 2 months or so using this FO, plus I tested a few I just made one or two days ago. I rated them quite simply: 7 (hardly any scent), 8 (medium), 9 (strong), 10 (very strong). And gave one of each to my daughter for "testing purposes. Here's what we found:

12oz. IGI 4786 and 4oz. GB 415 (10, wonderful scent!)

16oz. GB 415 (9)

16oz. feather palm wax (8)

12oz. Crafters' Choice SP and 4oz. GB 415 (8)

8oz. Candlemakers wax (10)

8oz. KY parasoy (8)

CBL 129 (9)

All from the same bottle. Have 2 new bottles which I've yet to open. So what does all this mean? I can't really say that it does not throw in soy (415 did great), but perhaps this FO may do better in the paraffins? The scent remained "true" with all the waxes/combinations.

IGI 6006.. well, you know the story:(

[burnt_fingers]

My wife bought Peak's Macintosh Apple and we used the FO in Candlewic's CBL-129 and ES Container Blend Advanced. The scent is as different as night and day. In the CBL-129 it comes close to the smell that comes straight from the FO bottle. Crisp and clean. In the Container Blend Advanced, it is not even close to the original scent. The crispness is gone and there is but a faint tone of apple and some funky undertones that just does not scream Macintosh apple or apple of any sort.

[Ravens]

Is the ES Container Blend a parasoy? Don't think I've heard of it before. I love the CBL129, though!

[burnt_fingers]

EcoSoya CB-Advanced Soy is made from soybeans and selected botanical oils.

The CBL-129 is great.

[topofmurrayhill]

Is the ES Container Blend a parasoy? Don't think I've heard of it before. I love the CBL129, though!

It's EcoSoya CB-Advanced. I've probably noticed some of the biggest fragrance changes in that wax, though I wouldn't say night and day. It just doesn't throw any FO very well, but I think maybe some components come through better than others, so the scent seems a little different.

[Stella1952]

Ravens, just for grins, make a candle & some tarts with straight 6006 with another fragrance you know well just to see how it does for you. I'd be interested in the results.

[Ravens]

Stella, I am going to do that. I will make a candle and tarts using one of Bert's FO (Aspen Forest), and a candle and tarts using Nature's Garden Gain Island Fresh - all with 6006 and nothing else added. Will post.

[Ravens]

Ok, I haven't tried the candles yet; thought I'd let them cure for a while. In addition I do not expect to smell much from the candles because wicks and I aren't on friendly terms:angry2:.

Looks like the FO that threw something awful must be a rare or even an isolated case. I melted the tarts I made with the Gain scent and the Aspen, and both smell true. Mind you, they don't throw nearly as well as the tarts made using the CBL129, but the point is that the scents have not "changed". So it looks like I really should not use Masquerade Ball with the 6006 - unless I want to start gagging!

Called my daughter this morning, and she said the tarts smell good, not too strong, but they do smell like Gain and Aspen. Interesting, now I'd love to know the chemistry behind it, exactly what caused that change, but I don't think I'll ever find out. Oh well, chuck it to experience...

[topofmurrayhill]

I wonder what could be so unique about 6006 and that particular FO together.

Edited February 16, 2010 by topofmurrayhill