Most likely a simple question

[Gbhunter]

:(Im making pillar candles with an aluminum mold and parafin wax. I just started making these but every time I get these little bubbles in the surface instead of a nice smooth surface.. I heat the wax to 195 then pour into the pouring pot and then into the mold. What could cause this?

Edited February 3, 2010 by Gbhunter

[*Dee*]

i am thinking a few different things that could cause them.

number 1. air bubbles 2. pouring too fast 3. wax cooling too quickly

do you tap your molds after you pour to release the air bubbles ? also pouring too fast will allow the air bubbles to be pushed down and not have enough time to surface. and i know when i did pillars and votives the first half were ok but the last half would get a bunch of bubbles but mainly on the top cuz the wax had cooled lower than what the pouring temp was.

[topofmurrayhill]

If you're making them without an additive, it might just be natural mottling of the the wax.

Could you let us know what paraffin you're using, the amount of fragrance, and any additives. A photo could be helpful too, but at least the info. Then we'll have a better idea what's up.

[Gbhunter]

I will post a photo tomorrow its getting a little late here. Other than red Dye I did not ad any other thing to the wax. I do not tap the mold and I do pour it in fairly quickly. But is 195 a goo enough temp?

[topofmurrayhill]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're making unscented candles? It also could help if you let us know where you got the paraffin.

195 is on the high side, but I don't think it's likely to do any harm. 180 to 190 should be fine for aluminum molds in most circumstances. If it's very cold, or the wax has a high melt point, you can warm the mold a little or pour on the hotter side.

I've never had to tap the mold to avoid bubbles. I always do a smooth fast pour. In my experience, pouring slowly and tapping the mold shouldn't be necessary. We'll see what the photo shows, but I have a feeling you might just need some Vybar. It can get rid of both interior and surface flaws, if you have a wax that's prone to them.

[Gbhunter]

Here is the photo. I usually pour the wax from the double bouler int a pouring pitcher.. Could the pitcher be cooling it too much. I dont know the name of the wax but the melting point is 148 and I got it from Michels craft store. Anyway here is the photo.

http://www.angelfire.com/on3/shellandpaulsphoto/Stuff/candle.jpg

[Bernadette]

You are using Yaley premium wax, if the meltpoint says 148. I've used it quite a bit. You need to put a pinch of vybar in, if you're only melting enough for the size of that pillar, 1/4 tsp per lb., and pour into mold at 175-180, and all those pits should disappear.:tiptoe:

[radellaf]

I'm having that exact kind of pitting with IGI 1274 (2.5% FO, no sweating) in plastic, poly, and metal molds. I'll try some of the Vybar 343, but didn't expect 1274 would need any additives. Usually, I don't mind the pitting, but some customers are picky.

They're definitely not from air bubbles, though. I can see there are none after pouring, so I guess some sort of gas is being released by the wax as it cools.

[Gbhunter]

Im not sure that you guys can tell me this but where do you get supplies.. Forexample if I wanted to add glitter to a candle without making it a fire hazzard ore this Vybar 343. None of the craft stores here in michigan cary this type of stuff.

[topofmurrayhill]

I'm having that exact kind of pitting with IGI 1274 (2.5% FO, no sweating) in plastic, poly, and metal molds. I'll try some of the Vybar 343, but didn't expect 1274 would need any additives. Usually, I don't mind the pitting, but some customers are picky.

It might take a little experimentation to get rid of the pits. Mess around with the pouring temperature and warming the mold, as well as stearic acid (start with 1% and experiment from there). Generally, don't pour above 180.

Most paraffins mottle naturally, so you don't need additives to make a mottled candle. Perfecting one takes a lot of work and testing, like any other candle. Stearic acid is generally the most useful additive with mottled pillars, because they come out of the mold cleaner and their burn properties can be improved.

Vybar 343 doesn't do anything useful. When we talk about the properties of Vybar, we're generally referring the Vybar 103 or maybe 260 (both of which eliminate mottling). The 343 is very a different animal.

[topofmurrayhill]

Im not sure that you guys can tell me this but where do you get supplies.. Forexample if I wanted to add glitter to a candle without making it a fire hazzard ore this Vybar 343. None of the craft stores here in michigan cary this type of stuff.

The most useful candle supplies are available from specialty suppliers rather than craft stores. You have to order them online unless you're lucky enough to live next to a supplier. You can try candlesupply.com for instance. What you want for your pillars is Vybar 103.

Edited February 3, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[radellaf]

Well, the Vybar 343 sounds like it's specifically made for 4045H and IGI 1274, so I'd expect it would at least allow more FO or prevent sweating if it does anything. (Though, yes, I see you as much as said that it doesn't do anything...)

The other Vybars would be the first thing I'd try if using Yaley or other non-mottling wax, sure. The pits would be all the more annoying on an un-mottled candle.

Stearic didn't do much other than reduce mottling (even at 2%) in 1343 but it might be worth another try in the 1274. Perhaps since it's made to mottle, the effect will hold up.

Except for a few poured for special effect at 140-150, I've always poured paraffin at 175-185. That would be the easiest process change to try so I'll give that a go today. Esp since mold release has been easy, and burning almost perfect once I wicked down vs. 1343. Also, I'd rather not use additives with a pre-blend without trying other things first...

[Gbhunter]

where do you buy this stuf?

[topofmurrayhill]

Well, the Vybar 343 sounds like it's specifically made for 4045H and IGI 1274, so I'd expect it would at least allow more FO or prevent sweating if it does anything.

It doesn't do those things. A certain amount might make candles come out of the mold cleaner, but stearic is widely available and does that a lot cheaper. 343 actually makes candles sweat more when burning, as well as potentially causing other undesirable effects. It can be worse than nothing.

Stearic didn't do much other than reduce mottling (even at 2%) in 1343 but it might be worth another try in the 1274. Perhaps since it's made to mottle, the effect will hold up.

If 2% is too much you can try 1%; fractions of a percent can make a difference in the burning, melting and mottling properties of the wax. 1274 does mottle more strongly than the average lot of 1343. I'd venture to say it's best suited for getting an overall mottled effect.

Putting in enough to stabilize the wax without reducing the mottling could help with the surface pits. That should be easy to do with 1274.

Except for a few poured for special effect at 140-150, I've always poured paraffin at 175-185. That would be the easiest process change to try so I'll give that a go today. Esp since mold release has been easy, and burning almost perfect once I wicked down vs. 1343. Also, I'd rather not use additives with a pre-blend without trying other things first...

If you've been pouring around 180, that might not be the first thing to change. I'd try pouring into seamless aluminum and warming the mold a bit. That and the stearic.

Most of the straight paraffin offered by wax manufacturers is multi-purpose stuff that isn't specifically intended for candles. To create a wax for candlemaking applications, generally you blend two or more paraffin types to get the burning, molding and other properties you need.

1274A and 4045 are pre-blends in that old-fashioned sense, because hobbyists and small producers don't really have the knowledge or inclination to blend paraffin these days. It potentially offers an advantage in terms of candlemaking properties and mottling consistency.

However, it doesn't imply that you have to try and get along without any additives, or that the waxes are not intended to need them. IGI and Candlewic and industry professionals in general would recommend using stearic acid in mottled pillars. It's standard practice.

[Circle]

Well, the Vybar 343 sounds like it's specifically made for 4045H and IGI 1274, so I'd expect it would at least allow more FO or prevent sweating if it does anything. (Though, yes, I see you as much as said that it doesn't do anything...)

The other Vybars would be the first thing I'd try if using Yaley or other non-mottling wax, sure. The pits would be all the more annoying on an un-mottled candle.

Stearic didn't do much other than reduce mottling (even at 2%) in 1343 but it might be worth another try in the 1274. Perhaps since it's made to mottle, the effect will hold up.

Except for a few poured for special effect at 140-150, I've always poured paraffin at 175-185. That would be the easiest process change to try so I'll give that a go today. Esp since mold release has been easy, and burning almost perfect once I wicked down vs. 1343. Also, I'd rather not use additives with a pre-blend without trying other things first...

Vybar 343 does 1 thing and that is make the candle burn better without such a big flame

[radellaf]

Success with the 2% proportion of Stearic in 1274. Mottling not inhibited at all, and surface pitting completely eliminated (175F pour). 1% still had flaws, but fewer of them. With 3% FO (CS Pineapple Coconut) the candle still had an oily surface coming out of the mold. Possibly more than 2.5% and no stearic.

1% Vybar 343 and 5% fragrance in a votive did sweat a lot initially, but after wiping off looks fine, and is burning well (LX-8).

The patent is kind of interesting:

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/pdfs/patent_id/6776808.html

Now that the surface flaw issue is easily solved I'm going to go ahead and make some 2x3" pillars with 2 and 3% 343 and 5% FO and see what happens. Also compare with 3 and 4% stearic. I'd like to get a full 3% in these mottling pillars without any oil bleed, if possible.

[topofmurrayhill]

My style is to make partially-mottled pillars, along the lines of Pacifica. Making fully mottled candles gives you some advantage in the sweating department, because the mottling itself does more than anything else to keep the fragrance from sweating out. You'll definitely want to get a full mottle on the 343 candles or they'll bleed like stuck pigs.

[radellaf]

I looked at the Pacifica website. That's similar to what I got with a lot of my straight 1343 pillars. Not consistently, though.

Well, have to say you all are right about the Vybar 343. As it is, doesn't look like the vybar is doing anything.

Tried 2,3, and 5% with 5% FO (CS Sage Pomegranate) and a little red dye. All of them sweated quite a bit out of the mold. The 3% one did the least. After cleaning them off, only the 2% is continuing to sweat. For some reason it has an un-mottled region which could be contributing to that. Yet to see how they'll burn or throw. 5% is a good bit of FO for a pillar. And, if 5% of 343 can't prevent it from sweating then I'm guessing nothing will.

So much for the claim : "This product enables you to achieve the 7-8% frangrance loads without the fragrance sweating out of the candle."

Still waiting for the stearic test candles to cool, but I can see the 5% stearic (5% FO) is still mottling (maybe not full), and sweating. Trying a 7% stearic also, though from looking carefully at the wax in the pot, I don't think the 5% FO fully dissolved. I saw, not sure what to call it, distortions at the bottom, kind of like waves of heat in the air. This was with the pour pot off the heat, though.

Maybe 3% stearic and 3% FO will be best for a full mottle and minimum bleed.

2% stearic still had surface oil, but very little, and clearly 3% stearic isn't going to kill the mottle in this 1274.

[topofmurrayhill]

Remember that bleeding in the mold is mainly a cleanup issue. You don't want a really messy candle and mold to deal with. Generally the candle will always need a wipe, but that has nothing to do with whether it stays dry in storage, shipping, or actual use.

After the candle is made, we have concerns about a product that won't feel greasy, stain packaging or furniture, or sweat when the wax gets warm. Those things depend on the amount of FO, the compatibility of the FO, the degree of mottling, and composition of the paraffin blend. All those factors are huge. Additive is a minor factor, except for the negative effect of Vybar 343.

It's hard to appreciate with fully mottled candles. With partials, which 343 clearly wasn't intended for, any clear areas on the surface of the candle bleed far worse than with any other additive--or with no additive at all. With manufacturer recommended amounts of 343 (< 2%) and > 3% FO, I've seen clear spots seep at room temperature for some time after the candle is out of the mold. The mottling also spreads in an ugly way.

By the time you add enough Vybar 343 to actually retain fragrance, the candles start sticking in the mold, the residue is hard to clean, and the viscosity that Circle noted totally screws up the wicking. In such amounts, it will also suppress the full mottling you want.

[radellaf]

Are you able to put in 4+% of most fragrances?

The 3 and 5% 343 candles are staying dry on the table, though the 3 did sweat some at the top during a 2hr burn. OTOH, the 5% stearic isn't doing any worse, although it has a more opaque look to it. Both burn OK so far, though the stearic with a low flame. 343 left only liquid in the mold, whereas the stearic left a harder to clean solid/granular residue. Wondering if excess FO didn't settle to the bottom of the mold (candle top), though.

My 2% stearic 3% FO 3-wick is doing fine, so I call the problem solved. I'm just prone to perfectionism. Kinda ruined home photo printing for me, so I'm going to try to be satisfied with "good enough" on the candle front. Commercial mottled pillars I've tried certainly aren't any better than what I have now.

[Gbhunter]

Well the red candle that you saw in the picture leaked on one side

Plus everyonce in a while the flame flickers and produces black smoke.

Any suggestions?

[topofmurrayhill]

Are you able to put in 4+% of most fragrances?

This is one thing I don't get specific about, but I'll say that in my newest designs I rely heavily on fragrance selection in order to keep the FO addition rate down. Mottling helps considerably in preventing oil migration, so having only a partially mottled effect imposes some constraints. I'm pretty stringent about quality factors, so I have to really optimize the paraffin blend and be as judicious as possible with the fragrance.

OTOH, the 5% stearic isn't doing any worse, although it has a more opaque look to it. Both burn OK so far, though the stearic with a low flame.

It's probably best to choose the lowest stearic addition rate that does the job for you. There's no use in making the wax harder to burn or more opaque than it needs to be.

I'm just prone to perfectionism. Kinda ruined home photo printing for me, so I'm going to try to be satisfied with "good enough" on the candle front.

Hmmm, can I relate to that? I'm totally certain that I've made more mottled pillar testers than anybody on the message board, or anybody who's ever been here.

[topofmurrayhill]

Well the red candle that you saw in the picture leaked on one side

Plus everyonce in a while the flame flickers and produces black smoke.

Any suggestions?

Do you feel the flame is too large?

You may need to try some different sizes of wick to see what works best.

How the candle works is also going to depend on how long you burn it and whether you trim the wick before lighting.

[cybersix]

Don't know if this could help, I just unmolded this:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89201

straight paraffin (MP around 60 celsius degrees), 5% FO, 6% palm stearic. Poured at 155 F. No bleeding at all, the candle and the molds are clean.

For test burning I think I'll try a 24 ply flat braid first.

[Gbhunter]

Do you feel the flame is too large?

You may need to try some different sizes of wick to see what works best.

How the candle works is also going to depend on how long you burn it and whether you trim the wick before lighting.

I did trim the wick and it seemed to help I will try new candles at a lower temperature. Also what is Stearine I read a boock that rocomended adding it to pillar candles but I would have to raise the temp to 190 before it would disolve. Any opinions?