topofmurrayhill Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 We often talk about the changes that happen to soy candles over time. Basically, they frost and the wax tends to expand. That's because three types of crystals are formed when oil is cooled. Over time, the less stable crystal types morph into the more stable crystal types, which affects both the appearance of the wax and how much space it takes up.There's another thing that people have described several times, but I never knew what to make of it. They say that they made candles that were properly wicked and burned perfectly, but months later the same candles seemed to be underwicked.As I've continued to look for information about crystal polymorphs and stability of solidified oils, I realized that this makes perfect sense. The three types of crystals, from the least stable to the most stable, have increasing melting points. Over time, the melt point of your candle wax is almost certain to increase. How much that happens will vary with your pouring methods and additives. The extent to which you notice it will also vary with your wicking habits. But over a matter of months, I don't think it would be odd for the melting point to increase by at least a few degrees, especially with unmodified soy, and this could definitely affect the burn.I wonder if people are still noticing this effect, or maybe don't have much opportunity to compare the burn of a fresh candle versus say a 6 month old or year old candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoalaGirl Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Damn it Top....why'd ya have to go and tell me that!! Something else to add to the 'things to worry about' list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsyjen Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Hey Top, I recently burned some of the very first candles I made (from back in 2005!) and though they were very overwicked at the time I made them, they burned much better this year. So what you are saying is corroborated with my particular tests. BTW, the wax I'd used was C-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb426 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 You know, sometimes working with soy makes me want to shoot myself and get it over with...:rolleyes2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwn6w Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Oh my gosh if you don't sound like me! I just use the term that I want to hang myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 Some years back I think I said that having to create a product out of soy wax was slightly less appealing than shooting myself in the face.While it seems that this melt point issue throws yet another wet blanket over things, the basic facts are still the same. This is a product you hope will get sold and used by the customer sooner rather than later, because it never stays the same and none of the changes are for the better after a good initial cure period.However, my research is always with the intention of finding some innovative way to make soy candles that solves these problems. Actually I have found an intriguing approach that could be very effective, but I'm not sure if I have enough information and resources to test it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ah-soy Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Don't know if my results count here as I use a parasoy (approx 30-40% soy according to my supplier)...that was all he would tell me anyway. When I first started testing this wax it seemed to be overwicked (torch height flame) no matter what wick I tried. I put tons of testers away and went on testing other waxes.Recently I pulled some of these out to burn (they were from 6 months to over a year old)...I was stunned when nearly all of them burned perfectly. They also still looked great having set out in a cold garage over winter and a very hot garage in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgirl Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I only found this to happen if you overload your candle with FO.I have had candles for years that burn like the did the first day I a made them.The candles that are the hard to wick ones to start, seem to be the ones that MAY burn slightly different months later. But they do not drown out..In fact, they will burn slower and the candle last longer.As you said, the makeup must have changed.I have candles from a few years, to a few months, that I pull out and test. I do compare them constantly. From old to new candles, hot (summer) and cold candles ( Candles sitting in a cold room or garage).For the most part, no problems with burning or scent throw.So Top.. What's all the interest in soy again. I thought you didn't like working with soy?Or are you trying find and make the perfect soy wax to help the cause??Interested in the idea you have.. Want to elaborate?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 OK, but what happens to that crystal structure when you re-burn a candle - when the melt pool resolidifies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 So Top.. What's all the interest in soy again. I thought you didn't like working with soy?I've always been interested in soy and I've always worked with it, or I wouldn't be in this section of the board. I'm just not into making all-soy candles that don't stay the way I made them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 OK, but what happens to that crystal structure when you re-burn a candle - when the melt pool resolidifies?Well...something happens to it. It's liable to be different from the rest of the candle and we often seem to see that visually from the way it sets up. I could speculate that rapid cooling of the melt pool might produce more of the less stable polymorphs, which are easier to melt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CareBear Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 then I'm wondering if the shift in burn properties in an aged candle is then kinda undone for subsequent burns. am I making sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwantItgreen Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 So what happens when you add paraffin or beeswax to the mix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowBoo Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 adding paraffin must stabilize it some. I looked at some of my first testers from early last summer and they look fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 then I'm wondering if the shift in burn properties in an aged candle is then kinda undone for subsequent burns. am I making sense?Probably. I figure the melt point issue would be alleviated for any wax that's remelted, but it might still make hangup more stubborn.Then there's this mysterious issue of scent throw and why soy candles need cure time. You'd think that might also be undone by a burn session, but soy candles have a deep "mush pool" when they burn, so maybe the scent throw properties come from there. It's all very speculative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 So what happens when you add paraffin or beeswax to the mix?As far as paraffin is concerned, a fairly low percentage stabilizes the wax completely. No more changes in crystallinity, no change in melt point, no change in volume, no aesthetic changes, no need for cure time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy, USMC Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 As far as paraffin is concerned, a fairly low percentage stabilizes the wax completely.Top, "fairly low" is a relative term. Could you provide a more specific "best guess" percentage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Top, "fairly low" is a relative term. Could you provide a more specific "best guess" percentage?I'll guess 10% at most, if you're using straight paraffin.It depends on what you're adding. Paraffin container blends are not straight paraffin, but rather a mixture of ingredients.To get a parasoy blend with good properties, you actually need more than one ingredient with the soy and probably higher amounts than just the minimum to stabilize the wax. The highest percentage of soy I've ever seen in a parasoy blend was 90% or a little more, but the product sucked and soon disappeared. SoyCandle.com was selling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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