double wicking

[jwn6w]

I was wondering when you need to double wick. I am using palm wax and a 4" diameter container. I have a lot of Yankee candles that size and none of them have ever been double wicked. I have soy candles from Integrity Candles (which by the way are really wonderful and smell great) and they are also 4" in diameter and they are all double wicked. Does it depend on the type of wax you are using? I like the larger 4 inch container and would like to be able to get this down so I can make them with some success. I am using the glass glow palm wax if that makes a difference. Also what do you think is the best wick for palm? I read so many threads I get confused.

Joy

[Carriegsxr6]

soy wax and palm wax are tougher to burn then Paraffin wax (what Yankee uses). Therefore you need to get the container a lot hotter in order to reach a full burn pool all the way to the edge of the glass, and the only way is to have two wicks to do it.

[AntoniasCreations]

When I first started making candles I got a 4" diameter jar and tried very hard to single wick it. There have been a few people on this board that was able to do it, but very few. Well finally I gave up on the fight to single wick that size jar so I went to double wicking them. I personally dont like the double wicks so I have swiched jars now so I can single wick. So I would say if you want to see if you are one of the few people that can get it to work then try and if it doesnt work for you you could always add some paraffin to see if that helps with the MP. I never tried this because I didnt want to have to order any more wax.

Well good luck and have fun testing.

Antonia

[Stella1952]

I use CDNs for both palm and soy-based waxes. They are treated to resist oxidation from the higher acid content of veggie waxes. For a 4" palm pillar, I use a CDN 18-20, which leaves ~ a 1/2" shell. Never poured a 4" palm container, but if I did, I would try a CDN 20-22. Glass Glow tends to burn with a rather large flame as compared to the other pillar palm waxes I have used, so I'd start with the smaller size wick first to test... I'll have to pour one just for grins the next time I make container palm candles...

For 4" soy (NatureWax C3), I use a CDN 22. Tried a 20, but it left a pretty scummy jar. The 22 was good.

Of course wicking depends on the formula/brand of wax one uses! Different brands have different additives and melting points, etc. Different FOs can affect the wicking, too. Different size/shape containers have a direct effect on wicking. Containers with "shoulders" are more difficult to wick than ones with straight sides which are no wider than they are tall.

I don't make large container candles (over ~ 3" wide or 12 total ounces) as "stock" items because testing them properly is extremely time (and materials!) consuming. It takes FOREVER to burn one all the way down (especially the 4+ inchers), which is the ONLY way to know whether the wicking is correct from start to finish. I make 4" soy containers for myself and for a few friends/family from time to time, but I would not, as a very small-time chandler, take them on as a stock product. I have found mid-sized container candles between 4-10 ounces to be the most profitable overall and I would rather sell five 5 oz. candles than one 24 ounce container candle.

[jwn6w]

I was hoping to hear from you Stella! You mentioned that you did 4" soy, did you double wick? Also the wick you suggested to me for my 4" palm did you mean try double wicking the CDN20 or 22? I don't understand why some people say that to save time and wax if your wick is not burning right to just blow it out and pull it out with pliers and insert another wick. First of all like you said how do you know if it is burning good until you let it burn all the way down. I tried the plier thing once and the wick would not come out and my whole candle slid out of my jelly jar and then cracked. I valve your opinion so what do you think that using 1.8 oz of oil/2lbs of palm wax could make such a big difference in smelling a scent than if you used 2 oz/ 2lb. of wax?

[logcabinmomma]

She was definitely talking single wicking the CDN 20-22! Watch the depth of your containers though- anything deeper than a 16 oz Apoth will get very sooty and hot with glass glow by the time you get halfway down. Those deep containers make terrible candles- that's why Yankee's get so sooty. (just try getting in there to wick trim!!!).

-Kristi

[jwn6w]

Thanks for the tip! I do not know much of anything.

[LeeAnn Carlton]

I was hoping to hear from you Stella! You mentioned that you did 4" soy, did you double wick? Also the wick you suggested to me for my 4" palm did you mean try double wicking the CDN20 or 22? I don't understand why some people say that to save time and wax if your wick is not burning right to just blow it out and pull it out with pliers and insert another wick. First of all like you said how do you know if it is burning good until you let it burn all the way down. I tried the plier thing once and the wick would not come out and my whole candle slid out of my jelly jar and then cracked. I valve your opinion so what do you think that using 1.8 oz of oil/2lbs of palm wax could make such a big difference in smelling a scent than if you used 2 oz/ 2lb. of wax?

We definantly change wicks with pliers. If the wick gets a week flame, if its not throwing in 30 min..change wick! About the time you have it figured out something else will change...and back to testing! But also after you figure out which wick with pliers...When you repour that scent you still do a full test burn! Doesn't take the full test away...just the number of candles it takes to find the right wick! LeeAnn~

[Meridith]

I think being able to successfully single wick a 4" jar with soy wax is very rare. IMO your best bet is to double wick that baby. You'll get a better, more consistent burn with maximum throw.

I just finished a single wick test on my jars and I'll post the pictures when I get a chance. I don't use dye in my candles so my testers have no dye. They also have no FO. One jar wicked with an HTP 1312 did not do too bad - not much hang-up but not a clean jar either and definately not to my standards. If I were to add FO, I believe there would be way more hang up in that jar. The other 2 wicks (HTP 1212 and 62C) did horribly!! Of course there are other wicks out there I could try but those were what I had available. I would love to give the CDNs a try in this jar. I have used CD's but my experience shows that I could not singel wick a jar using the size that Stella uses with just the CDs so the CDNs have me very intrigued.

[AntoniasCreations]

I think being able to successfully single wick a 4" jar with soy wax is very rare. IMO your best bet is to double wick that baby. You'll get a better, more consistent burn with maximum throw.

I just finished a single wick test on my jars and I'll post the pictures when I get a chance. I don't use dye in my candles so my testers have no dye. They also have no FO. One jar wicked with an HTP 1312 did not do too bad - not much hang-up but not a clean jar either and definately not to my standards. If I were to add FO, I believe there would be way more hang up in that jar. The other 2 wicks (HTP 1212 and 62C) did horribly!! Of course there are other wicks out there I could try but those were what I had available. I would love to give the CDNs a try in this jar. I have used CD's but my experience shows that I could not singel wick a jar using the size that Stella uses with just the CDs so the CDNs have me very intrigued.

I felt the same way after Stella went through her test run with the CDNs for her 4" jar. So I went to wicks unlimited and they sent me free samples of the CDNs 22 and went and tested like crazy but no luck for me so I went to double wicking. I say if you want to give it a try go to wicks unlimited and request a sample of the CDNs 22, I believe they send you 20 of them, and see what you get. Good luck and and I hope it works for you guys.

If you guys do a search you might be able to find the link where Stella posted all about it and it had some pictures with it.

Here is the link

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61817&page=3

Antonia

[logcabinmomma]

And once again, it really depends on the mp of the wax. I CAN get a successful burn with 464 and cd's single wicked with dye and fo. See here:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66750&highlight=single+wick+apothecary

The film on the edges is just that- not really hangup. I get it on anything that I use 464 with that isn't burning really really hot.

-Kristi

[elfcat]

I hate double wicking. I've never been able to get it right! I have single wicked a 4" apothecary with C3 and coconut oil. I used a CDN 22. It did leave a film on some scents and there were a couple of scents that had a tiny bit of hang up. With my 50/50 I use a CDN 20 or 18 depending on the fragrance, no hang up and no film.

With double wicking I always had issues with soot or the jar becoming too hot. PITA!

[Meridith]

And once again, it really depends on the mp of the wax. I CAN get a successful burn with 464 and cd's single wicked with dye and fo. See here:

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66750&highlight=single+wick+apothecary

The film on the edges is just that- not really hangup. I get it on anything that I use 464 with that isn't burning really really hot.

-Kristi

I think it is great that you can get a good burn with one wick but I still think it is rare that someone can consistently get a good burn with one wick in soy. I still think for the most part, in a jar over 3" with soy, you are better off double wicking. I realize it takes some time to find a wick that works whether you DW or not. And with some of the newer wicks out, single wicking and wicking all togther has improved since I started this. I would love to be able to single wick certain jars since I have a customer that for some reason abhors DW'd jars.

I would love to someday try one of your candles that you are able to successfully single wick - especially since you do add FO and dye. Do you also have success in a jar with a very heavy FO like patchouli and one wick? Or do you ever find that one wick just does not cut it with certain FOs?

Elfcat - I too had problems getting my DW'ing down in my jars. Too hot, too much soot, not hot enough etc. It was very frustrating. But I finally found the right wick for me and I have to say, my burn and throws are where I want them. I also don't experience any film on my jars. They burn totally clean. I found success with ECOs which is funny considering I use to really hate these wicks and the smoke they can give off. So don't give up.

[logcabinmomma]

I don't do patchouli, so I don't know about that one. I do have a harder time with pine type scents (bay rum, mistletoe), but was able to do Mulberry without a problem. I just don't offer those in this size. In fact, I don't routinely make this size in advance, and sell many more 4 oz and 8 oz candles. If someone orders one out of the scents I've tested in it, that's great. Otherwise I do a 20 oz tureen that I DO double wick (duh, they're huge lol).

I know that I would NOT get as good a burn with c-3 or 415. They have higher MPs and this JUST works with 464. I fought with c-3 forever thinking I was a failure and then I switched to 464... whew...

-Kristi

[Meridith]

I don't do patchouli, so I don't know about that one. I do have a harder time with pine type scents (bay rum, mistletoe), but was able to do Mulberry without a problem. I just don't offer those in this size. In fact, I don't routinely make this size in advance, and sell many more 4 oz and 8 oz candles. If someone orders one out of the scents I've tested in it, that's great. Otherwise I do a 20 oz tureen that I DO double wick (duh, they're huge lol).

I know that I would NOT get as good a burn with c-3 or 415. They have higher MPs and this JUST works with 464. I fought with c-3 forever thinking I was a failure and then I switched to 464... whew...

-Kristi

Yeah Patchouli is a hard one to wick - even double wicking it. I have to really wick up on this one. I've never had a problem wicking mulberry but I do find that citrus scents can be a bear to single wick too.

When I tested the 464 (and 444) when it first came out, I found for the most part, I could wick down one size or stay with the same wick on most of my FOs but on some of my FOs, my normal wick was too large, but going one size down was too small. Wouldn't it be great if they made 1/2 sizes in wicks?

[Stella1952]

You mentioned that you did 4" soy, did you double wick?

No! I don't care much for double-wicking for reasons folks have previously stated, so I stick to singles.

Also the wick you suggested to me for my 4" palm did you mean try double wicking the CDN20 or 22?

No. I don't double wick palm either. I meant for you to try single wicking with either a CDN 20 or 22.

I don't understand why some people say that to save time and wax if your wick is not burning right to just blow it out and pull it out with pliers and insert another wick. First of all like you said how do you know if it is burning good until you let it burn all the way down.

Different strokes for different folks. I have tried this method and have found that by the time I can see that a wick isn't working out, it has burned down too much to give me a reliable test with another wick. If it works out for others, that's great. It just doesn't work out for me.

using 1.8 oz of oil/2lbs of palm wax could make such a big difference in smelling a scent than if you used 2 oz/ 2lb. of wax?

Jeeze - that's only one tenth of an ounce off from the standard of one ounce per pound, so I think it's unlikely that made a huge difference, BUT, it might, depending on the FO and the wicking. If the scent is throwing weakly at FMP using one size wick, I'd try another size before I blamed the lack of throw on the lesser amount of FO. Go up or down a size depending on whether you think the wick is burning too hot and burning off the FO or it is underwicked and not heating the FO sufficiently.

What was the size of the melt pool when you decided that the hot throw was weak? Whereas soy wax sometimes begins to throw a few minutes after lighting, palm wax may take a little longer to build up a melt pool before it throws well, depending on the FO. Personally, I can't tell much about the ultimate hot throw of palm or soy until it's at FMP. Sure, if the throw starts kicking butt when the MP is only the size of a dime, I can predict it'll be throwing well enough to make my eyes water by the time it gets to FMP, but in the case of most FOs, particularly lighter ones, I wait to judge it until it's nearing FMP.