Is DIY Hurting your business? #2

[beck180]

OK, if you came back for post #2 you are either interested in learning more, unsatisfied with your current sales or just really bored enough to hear me ramble on about web technology, spiders, google and the whole ecommerce marketing world.

Or...you are sincerely interested in finding out why your ultra beautiful, handmade, great smelling products that you invested tons of time money and heart into, are not stacking up to what you had hoped for.

So... with my husbands guidance we took a look at 3 websites built with this technology, and what we found surprised and angered both of us in the process.

None of these sites were HTML or CSS valid, which in layman's terms means that the code was dirty and not compliant with today's standards.

The first included 64 errors alone, anything from no document type declaration to missing tags, scripting errors....on and on...

Ok...what's this got to do with you? Well, if you care about people reaching your site and purchasing from you...EVERYTHING!

To start with, if you don't have a generous existing client base on which to survive you need the search engines to generate traffic and sales. This is not an exception. People will not find your site if you are not indexed by google, yahoo or other search engines.

The trouble is...when the spiders, or bots, or whatever you like to call them (the technology that scans and indexes your pages and content) reach your site full of errors, with no doctype and on and on...they will not index all of your content, will not index it properly, or even worse will flee in terror, or... as one web master so eloquently states "search engine bots like valid code, or rather, they hate invalid code as it may cause them to barf and miss half your site"

Improper code and invalid pages result in poor indexing by google and others. Or worst case, no indexing at all which means no traffic, and no sales!

Let's break this down. I don't believe anyone is out to purposely rip you off and take your money when they offer such a service, it's just the fact that a lot of this technology is built by well meaning companies on old standards and technology that is prone to mistakes.

Hubby says you would be better off building your store on Wordpress technology for free! Than to build a site no one will ever find.

I will continue this post as long as people are interested in learning more, or when someone objects to this commentary and pulls them down.

I hope that doesn't happen as we all have a right to know what we are paying for, and if we are wasting time waiting on spiders that will never come, so to speek.

Stay tuned for post #3 Hubby says you can build a successful website for next to nothing, with minimal effort...the real DIY way!!!

Beck ~

[candlelady]

Still listening...........

[MissMary]

Some of this is incorrect (only slightly) like error pages - those will be crawled at all times, and everyone will have them from time to time when a bot crawls during a down time of the site, or maintenence, etc. But I gotta say - this is starting to sound like a setup for selling something!

Additionally, the way Google indexes you and search coding doesn't start highest with tags - it starts highest with linkbacks as the initial "ranking" information. (One funny story about it was something about the word terrorist or what not and the top search result was whitehouse.gov). It tries first to link the search to the word preceding the link. The one true way to start is link sharing, along with blogging about your own site, including a link in each post.

[Stella1952]

Regarding page code errors, warnings, etc., truer words were never spoken! Using Firefox with extensions (Web Developer, Error Console, HTML Validator, FireFTP, etc.) has helped me tremendously to clean up code, coupled with recommendations from the http://www.w3schools.com/ site... While dirty script may not cause a spider to totally ignore a site, it makes it more difficult to index, as you said, not to mention often leaving the site more vulnerable to security issues, defacement, etc.

Hubby says you would be better off building your store on Wordpress technology for free!

Beck, this is very interesting stuff to me. I take it when you spoke of DIY sites, you are talking about products like "Website Tonight", "Site Studio," and others offered by webhosts, correct? Or, god forbid, Frontpage... :rolleyes2

You mentioned Wordpress - what about Joomla, PostNuke, CubeCart, osCommerce and other predesigned scripts that folks can run? I have used Joomla, postNuke, phpBB, SMF and TikiWiki to build sites, but I was not concerned about search engine placement for those particular projects... How are the the open source e-commerce scripts and content management systems for search engine placement?

[beck180]

Some of this is incorrect (only slightly) like error pages - those will be crawled at all times, and everyone will have them from time to time when a bot crawls during a down time of the site, or maintenence, etc. But I gotta say - this is starting to sound like a setup for selling something!

Additionally, the way Google indexes you and search coding doesn't start highest with tags - it starts highest with linkbacks as the initial "ranking" information. (One funny story about it was something about the word terrorist or what not and the top search result was whitehouse.gov). It tries first to link the search to the word preceding the link. The one true way to start is link sharing, along with blogging about your own site, including a link in each post.

Nope, not selling anything, just trying to inform those who may not know better!

[beck180]

Some of this is incorrect (only slightly) like error pages - those will be crawled at all times, and everyone will have them from time to time when a bot crawls during a down time of the site, or maintenence, etc. But I gotta say - this is starting to sound like a setup for selling something!

Additionally, the way Google indexes you and search coding doesn't start highest with tags - it starts highest with linkbacks as the initial "ranking" information. (One funny story about it was something about the word terrorist or what not and the top search result was whitehouse.gov). It tries first to link the search to the word preceding the link. The one true way to start is link sharing, along with blogging about your own site, including a link in each post.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and add anything that might make people realize how important this issue really is.

Not bashing anyone, just trying to help people on here succeed!

[beck180]

Regarding page code errors, warnings, etc., truer words were never spoken! Using Firefox with extensions (Web Developer, Error Console, HTML Validator, FireFTP, etc.) has helped me tremendously to clean up code, coupled with recommendations from the http://www.w3schools.com/ site... While dirty script may not cause a spider to totally ignore a site, it makes it more difficult to index, as you said, not to mention often leaving the site more vulnerable to security issues, defacement, etc.

Beck, this is very interesting stuff to me. I take it when you spoke of DIY sites, you are talking about products like "Website Tonight", "Site Studio," and others offered by webhosts, correct? Or, god forbid, Frontpage... :rolleyes2

You mentioned Wordpress - what about Joomla, PostNuke, CubeCart, osCommerce and other predesigned scripts that folks can run? I have used Joomla, postNuke, phpBB, SMF and TikiWiki to build sites, but I was not concerned about search engine placement for those particular projects... How are the the open source e-commerce scripts and content management systems for search engine placement?

People have alot of success with different platforms, Joomla and PostNuke are good, just depends on who's coding it, or if you are using templates plug-ins and such.

Installation can be a little tricky for some.

[beck180]

Webmasters are starting to realize the value of a true CMS for ecommerce and more, big thing is just realistically evaluating your needs.

There is so much great stuff out there cheep, or even free!

GO Open Source!

[MissMary]

Webmasters are starting to realize the value of a true CMS for ecommerce and more, big thing is just realistically evaluating your needs.

There is so much great stuff out there cheep, or even free!

GO Open Source!

I wanted to make clear I was teasing about the selling stuff. It was just set up that way, kinda funny to me.

Open source RULES!!! I use OSCommerce and people bash it all the time, but god... attribute sets are AMAZING!!!! And frankly, I can go to a forum, get the help I need from just about anyone, or get a plug in (like shipping, weight discounts, volume discounts, coupon codes, the attribute sets, customer data sheets, newsletters, etc. all inside OS!). Why pay for a crappy cart that can't even do half the stuff, when OSC works? That's another story though.

I do think this dialogue is important, regardless though. In times like this, where many are posting about sales being down, and websites not getting orders, we've not (at least in my searching) had a true, total rundown on websites. It's damn near the most important thing outside of wax for many people here. If you have a crappy website that either doesn't work or is down all the time, how are you gonna make those sales, even IF you get repeat customers?

[beck180]

I wanted to make clear I was teasing about the selling stuff. It was just set up that way, kinda funny to me.

Open source RULES!!! I use OSCommerce and people bash it all the time, but god... attribute sets are AMAZING!!!! And frankly, I can go to a forum, get the help I need from just about anyone, or get a plug in (like shipping, weight discounts, volume discounts, coupon codes, the attribute sets, customer data sheets, newsletters, etc. all inside OS!). Why pay for a crappy cart that can't even do half the stuff, when OSC works? That's another story though.

I do think this dialogue is important, regardless though. In times like this, where many are posting about sales being down, and websites not getting orders, we've not (at least in my searching) had a true, total rundown on websites. It's damn near the most important thing outside of wax for many people here. If you have a crappy website that either doesn't work or is down all the time, how are you gonna make those sales, even IF you get repeat customers?

Teasing is good, keeps me sane !

This whole thing came about because everyone says business is so slow, and i remember when candltech was like a mob, now it's more tame, i miss those days!

Lets start the Open Source Revolution!!!

Oh, it's already started....

seriously tho, people just need to learn a little more and they can compete with anyone, i really believe that!

[Stella1952]

Installation can be a little tricky for some.

Most folks who have cPanel as their server access also have Fantastico, which makes installing these open source programs a snap! All the tough server stuff is preconfigured, so as soon as Fantastico gets finished with the set up, you can move right into the script and start configuring and customizing it to make it how you want it. It has become very easy compared to 5-10 years ago...

I am amazed at how many folks have their own sites but have never clicked around to see all the "goodies" that their webhost provides free... If a webhost isn't providing free goodies, it's time to go shopping for a new host!

[SliverOfWax]

The fact that you started a new thread on a subject you already had a thread on shows me you aren't organized and are just seeking attention or business. Your first post in this thread makes zero sense without reading your first post in your first thread on this subject.

[candlelady]

The fact that you started a new thread on a subject you already had a thread on shows me you aren't organized and are just seeking attention or business. Your first post in this thread makes zero sense without reading your first post in your first thread on this subject.

Anyway,

I've been following this thread and am interested in knowing how can I, as a DIY website owner, "fix" the various issues you all speak of? I am not in anyway knowledgable in this area (but I should be) to know if my website is "out there".

However, what are your thoughts on Craft Site Medic? I use them. I do get plenty of hits, but maybe not as many as I should...right?

[bugtussle]

I am a little lost in this thread and the 1st one. I imagine right now there are fewer candle buyers out there than there are diy or any kind of candle ecommerce sites. If you think sales are down because our sites don't have all the crawlers they need, you are living in the same world as George Bush. Things are tough right now. People are not buying candles online, or locally or at retail locations. Hopefully the economy or the demand for candles will rise this fall. I'm happy with my diy website and don't expect more. Sorry but I don't know where you're going with this and I have to agree with Sliver, either it's going to cost me something or :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 :rolleyes2 . Carole

[beck180]

The fact that you started a new thread on a subject you already had a thread on shows me you aren't organized and are just seeking attention or business. Your first post in this thread makes zero sense without reading your first post in your first thread on this subject.

Seeking attention or business from whom?

just trying to help sorry, used to be able to do that here!

I don't live my life on the boards so i don't know all the rules of the road, i do apologize for that.

[beck180]

Anyway,

I've been following this thread and am interested in knowing how can I, as a DIY website owner, "fix" the various issues you all speak of? I am not in anyway knowledgable in this area (but I should be) to know if my website is "out there".

However, what are your thoughts on Craft Site Medic? I use them. I do get plenty of hits, but maybe not as many as I should...right?

The first thing that will help you if you want to stay with your store the way it is, would be to install the Firefox browser with the Firebug plug-in. This will give you a set of tools right in your browser that will enable you take take a good look at your page, the markup and coding, and even let you validate your code right from there. It will show you a lot of the errors in your existing markup. That's a good place to start.

Firefox is great, and by the way never design for Internet Explorer, it's the worst browser on the planet.

As for the site you mentioned i would have to look into that, never heard of that one before.

[pixisprkl]

I have read both posts and I am very interested in what you have to say.... and I don't even have a website. My curiosity is peaked.

Not to mention that the information could be helpful to many people.

[beck180]

I have read both posts and I am very interested in what you have to say.... and I don't even have a website. My curiosity is peaked.

Not to mention that the information could be helpful to many people.

I was afraid to post on this topic even though i have thought about this for some time. The way i remember it this place was a great resource for people to discuss and exchange information and knowledge, just hope i don't get whipped and beaten too bad for trying to do so.

My husband offered the advice and i was interested in passing this along to the community. He's been in this line of work for quite some time and a computer geek forever!

If i can help some, guess it will make up for those who will disagree and get angry.

Not all news is good news, I really am just trying to help, not trying to sell anything to anyone...honest!

I think i also said those who were not interested could pass on reading this as well....maybe I'm losing it???

[MichelleOH]

I'm listening too! But I'm not knowledgeable at all in code, HTML, etc..

[SliverOfWax]

I'm certainly not faulting you for trying to help. It's the scattering of threads that will probably confuse somebody just popping in.

That said, my online sales are low but my store sales are triple and quadruple what they were a year ago. People are buying. We have a product that people are reluctant to spend money on until they've sniffed and actually used. IMO, websites for people who sell a product that needs to be touched or smelled before they plunk down their hard-earned money is pretty much for repeat customers and wholesale. Especially in this day and age.

I'm always interested in what people have to say about improving online sales. Even if I don't implement the tips, I read and learn.

I would like to see examples of your expertise.

[Guest LightofDawn]

Listening too...

[kandlekrazy]

You have peeked my interest as well!

[MissMary]

I think, IMO of course, that the info here is already laid out. Beck shouldn't be telling you exactly how to build everything (that would take months to teach someone from scratch), but there are already some great tips. One being errors - find them, fix them. Set up for Mozilla Firefox (Mine works with both FF and IE). Don't just go by what someone says to you and just accept it. If it sounds fishy - it probably is.

Stella gave some tips as well.

Mine would be to look at your page in both IE and Mozilla - yes, IE sucks big time, but many of the "older" crowd still use it, and the "older" crowd generally has more money to spend, IMO.

A big point with me has always been - don't make the site what YOU like - instead, tailor it to the crowd you think you can get. Like for example, I found that so far 90% of my customers were women. Hence I changed to a pink design (I hate pink), that was a bit more friendly than the "upscale" look I had before. The original look with cursive fancy text and plain ole Ivory tones. Since changing my font, my sales have quadrupled from "unknown" sources, I.E. not previous customers, nor friends and family. I just started the pink tones last night, so we'll see what happens.

Another thing is you can do your favorite colors, but only if it fits. A designers color wheel is AWESOME to help make your site cohesive to the eye (do a search). I've seen far too many people try deep purple and yellow green or some awful combo. High contrast for text against your background, but never pick 2-3 colors that are starking contrast on top of that. It hurts.

Check your CP. Look at what's crawling your site and where. Look at the errors found - if you are in a site builder, you shouldn't have more than 100 over the course of a month (all errors put together). If you do, there's more than just a server problem, there's a near 100% guarantee of a coding problem.

Insert meta tags in the page's "underneath". Lots of people scoff at them, but they really DO help.

[beck180]

I'm certainly not faulting you for trying to help. It's the scattering of threads that will probably confuse somebody just popping in.

Right, I can understand that. I am breaking up these post because of the length, not to confuse anyone.

It's not my expertise but my husband who is kindly sharing.

I think it's not just if people or buying or not, but that people are more choosy about where they spend there money and the trust and professionalism involved with the two parties. They are less willing to take a chance nowadays.

That said, if they don't know where you live in the first place they won't drop by to visit. That's the whole point.

Unless you are fortunate enough to have existing or repeat customers, or there is good word of mouth to lead them there, it's kind of like fishing in the dark, for lack of a better analogy. There website exists in a limbo land where no one could even find it to make a purchase!

Many of the members here are not that fortunate and are simply starting from scratch.

The sad thing is they are paying for this service to set up a webstore that exists in a black hole!

They should understand this fact!

[candlelady]

You know, I do appreciate what Sliver and MissMary and the likes are saying....but, just "doing it" doesn't cut it.....I have a full plate, like many of us do, working a full time job, home, kids, and 50 chicks arriving at my doorstep for 4H in a few weeks, not to mention the "other" stuff in my and our lives, and the like. If someone wants to help, I'm all for "sharing of information" and places to start. I manage my own site, but if there is a better way to get me out there, then by all means tell me how to.....

I do the "standard" html on my site to get by....my business slowed some, but now has picked up, and not just from my regulars or wholesale, I have people buying from all over, but, I know economy has alot to do with it, but then, I also believe if I'm not out there, I'm losing business......someone else is getting it......there are alot of people out there that have money and are spending it...I just want it to be at my place! LOL

Either way, I'm all for any kind of help I can get......and learn at the same time.I thank Beck for taking the time to share....

She didn't have to do this........at all.........