seattle70 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I am using CB3 and added about 25% J223 to get nicer tops. I noticed some really huge sink holes that required a lot of heat gun work after it was set to fill it in and let the bubbles surface. I am also pouring in my garage and it's coooold out. Pour temp is between 120-145 and the jars are garage temp (50F). I don't poke because I was under the impression that with Soy you are poke free and the amount of 223 was small. Any suggestions as to why and how I can make it stop? Or should I just stop making candles..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzie Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Or should I just stop making candles.....Ha, you may think that you can stop, you may think that you want to stop but you just won't be able to - sorry. :smiley2: LOL. No answers to your question about the sink holes but just keep plugging (no pun intended) away. I'm sure that someone with experience in container waxes will soon chime in with some USEFUL information. Just wanted to keep your spirits up in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I am using CB3 and added about 25% J223 to get nicer tops. I noticed some really huge sink holes that required a lot of heat gun work after it was set to fill it in and let the bubbles surface. I am also pouring in my garage and it's coooold out. Pour temp is between 120-145 and the jars are garage temp (50F). I don't poke because I was under the impression that with Soy you are poke free and the amount of 223 was small. Any suggestions as to why and how I can make it stop? Or should I just stop making candles.....Hi Seattle,I assume they are visible sinkholes unlike my invisible airpockets. I think I have used J-223 with the CB-3 before and I found that I was less inclined to get dips, cracks, sinkholes, airpockets, etc. I think it is probably because it is 50 degrees in your work area and it is cooling way too fast. You could try to heat your jars or put a heater around your work area. I am not sure on the pour temp since it is so cold in there, but when I poured it I still poured pretty cool but can't remember exactly how cool. I may have used more than 25% of the J-223 -- I would have to check for that jar. You night want to try mixing in another soy that is less inclined to frost or crack. This way you can still have all soy. I am trying the C-3. I need to up the amount though higher than 20%.I could be wrong but it is probably the cold temp that is giving you the trouble. I don't get the visible, big sink holes even using straight CB-3. However, I can get the slight dip and hairline circular crack. Someone else may have some better ideas and why this is happening for you. Keep trying and I would warm the area up. ~Holly :smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattle70 Posted November 7, 2005 Author Share Posted November 7, 2005 Sounds good enough for me. Now I can return to the candle making addiction and go at it some more. You would think something so frustrating and $$ would drive us away, but alas, away we go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Sounds good enough for me. Now I can return to the candle making addiction and go at it some more. You would think something so frustrating and $$ would drive us away, but alas, away we go. Yes, this sure does get expensive. I forgot to mention, if you are not using the veggie modifier that is one reason why your tops are not coming out very smooth. When you use the veggie modifier with the CB-3 they come out VERY smooth -- and poured between 125 and 130. However, even though the texture is smooth I can get the dip and circular crack. That is what I am trying to clear up. I am going to add stearic to see what that will do for the cracking and hidden airpockets. I am only going to use the C-3 in the scents that give me horrible frosting: Cinnamon Stick, Country Grove and maybe one other. I really love the scent throw with the CB-3 and I don't want to lessen it. I am going to be receiving the ADM wax and I will test that up against the CB-3. Let me know how it goes for you. ~Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattle70 Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 does the modifier or stearic acid affect throw? By the way, I'm still working on wicking the tins I'll keep you updated if I make any grand discoveries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Mozzie is right about the addiction!! I tried to quit once, even started selling off some of my stuff, but just couldn't do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattle70 Posted November 8, 2005 Author Share Posted November 8, 2005 Just wanted to keep your spirits up in the meantime. Very cute....I appreciated it:grin2: Now why can't exercising and eating right be just as addicting....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fern-Marie Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I have given up on trying to figure out why, all of a sudden, I am getting sink holes. I went back and made candles exactly to formulation of previous batches where I got no sink holes. I poured higher, poured lower, slowed down the cooling process, tried putting them in a warm water bath to slow the cooling and stabilize the environment, box tops, closing off the room so no drafts could get to them....the whole gammit...all to no avail.So, I give up. I'm tired of beating myself up over it, and frankly, it is wearing me out mentally. Got to the point where I was thinking about it half the night....it became an obsession...and questioning myself with 'what am I doing wrong?' Now, I watch and wait. When I see them forming, I blast it with the heat gun, and move the wick around to chase out any pockets or air bubbles. I just have to check on them about a half an hour after I pour.Seems to be working, and the tops are setting nicely. I figured that for all the time I wasted trying to figure it out, and blaming myself...I should just accept it as a soy flaw, and deal with it as such. Assume that it is going to happen, and be ready to blast the sucker!It is still frustrating, but I have to be satisfied with being able to fix it.I am tired of fighting with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvnmt Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 HIHave either of you guys tried adding BW? It has always worked great for me to get smooth tops, but you can still get a little frosting. I use the CB3 as well, and this weekend I tried mixing cb2/cb3/bw combo. The cold throw is outstanding. I have very little frosting, somewhat only on the sides of the glass. But I am waiting to burn these until I get some new wix to try. Alan from calwax suggested using the CD wicks, or zinc. I thought that zincs are supposed to smoke? So I want to try the CD and Eco wicks. Anyways, since I also poured these with out wicks, they still set up very smooth, I had to heat gun the tops of a couple. But no dipping or cracking. Only slightly in the mason jars, but I think its because I filled them too high.I guess the real test will be how they burn, and what happens after that. Hopefully the hot throw will be as good as the cold. I will let you guys know if I get any airpockets. But as of now, no cracking, and very little frosting. :smiley2: ps, there is about a 1:3 ratio of paraffin in the CB2, but if you mix it with the cb3 is shrinks it to 1:6 so its still pretty minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fern-Marie Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I have not added anything to mine. I know ppl use stearic and bw. I want to try to make soy without having to add anything...try being the key word. Believe me, I have thought of giving in on the au natural thing and going for an additive quick fix. But, right now, I want to keep it as just soy. I suppose when I get tired of torturing myself I may have to break down.Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.FernMarie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 does the modifier or stearic acid affect throw? By the way, I'm still working on wicking the tins I'll keep you updated if I make any grand discoveries...Hi,I have not yet used the stearic, but I heard that it should not. I use the veggie modifier and it does not hurt the throw at all. I only use on tbl. per pound of soy. It really makes a difference with the tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvnmt Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I want to try to make soy without having to add anything...try being the key wordWell I am sure that you will get it, just keep trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fern-Marie Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 What is the "veggie modifier"....I am not familiar with this??Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Hi Fern,I need to fly out the door but the veggie modifier is an additive that helps with obtaining smooth tops and helps lesson the frosting. I have used it ever since I have used the CB-3. I made some candles without it and there is a big difference with the tops and frosting. You can get it from either Candle Soylutions or Moon Glow. Just By Nature has it too but they call it Universal Additive so I don't know if it is different or not. I use the one from Candle Soylutions -- never have used the one from Moon Glow yet. I don't have time to post the web addresses but if you need them I will post them later. Gotta run! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatsink Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I'm surprised the water bath didn't solve the sink hole problems you're seeing Fern. I have tested the soy UA, and stearic, and beeswax. From what I can tell, the universal additive doesn't improve much over using stearic and beeswax. Scent load and throw don't have any problems either with stearic/beeswax added. The only cause I've found for sink holes has been thermal transfer in the wax from the core to external surfaces of the wax column, which normally can be avoided with low pour temps(around 100-110) with soy. You might try pouring a candle when the wax looks like gritty sandy wet-cement gunk to see how you like it.And don't feel bad about using veggie additives in your soy wax. Soy wax is kinda-sorta-maybe natural. It's manufactured by injecting hydrogen into very high temperature soy oil in the presence of a nickel catalyst if I remember right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fern-Marie Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Hi Heatsink,I never got this reply notification, but I just wanted to thank you for your input, and encouragement.Sure sounds like you know your stuff!I thought that the water-bath would work, and got that 'conquer the world with this great idea' feeling...wrong!I will definitely try the slushy pour this week, this seems to work for other ppl.Thanks again,Fern-Marie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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