Wax discolors after burn - Please Help!

[Lori Reismeier]

After I test burn two or more times and let the wax cool, the cooled wax changes to an ugly color. It doesn't matter what fragrance I'm using or the size of the wick.

I'm using J223 Wax

Pinch of uv inhib

Liquid dye

1 oz. fragrance

9 oz and 16 oz Melting Pot jar

It happens with both CD and Zinc wicks

Please........Can anyone help?

Thanks!

[PamR]

are you double wicking? Sounds like the wax is getting too hot.

PamR

[Lori Reismeier]

My 4 oz. Melting Pots aren't double wicked; they do it. If I wick down, I don't get the FMP on my 16 oz. and they are double wicked.

[Stella1952]

What size wicks and what is the inside diameter and height of the containers?

[Lori Reismeier]

Thanks for responding!!!

16 oz jar has a neck diameter of three inches. Jar then increases to 3.5 inches in diameter. Heighth from top to bottom is 4 1/4 inches.

http://The JarStore.com Melting Pot if you would want to look at a pic of it.

Thanks again!

[Stella1952]

What size wicks?

What size wicks are you using? What FOs is this happening with specifically?

[Lori Reismeier]

I forgot to put the wicks in...this is making me have half a brain.... Fragrance oils: Black Raspberry Vanilla, Rose and Warm Vanilla Sugar all purchased from C&S. My wicks are two 51-32-18z, two CD 10 and two CD12 in the 16 oz jars. (Still testing) However, it is doing the same thing when I use Spring Rain and a CD12 and 14 (testing) for my 9 oz. melting pot jars. I have tried wicking both the 9 and 16 oz. jars with one wick a wide range of sizes (largest being 62-44-18z) and I never get a FMP even on the 5th, 6th or 7th burn. Only ugly wax. I bought a Yankme candle yesterday just to see what their burn does (14.5 oz). I haven't bought one in years and the top is just pitiful. (IMHO) I am thinking I have set my standards too high with my own candles??? But I will only sell something I would buy. I am also thinking it may be the jar...and if I hadn't stupidly bought almost $400. worth of the jars because they told me they'd be getting no more, I'd send them back and try the Status...

Thanks so much for your help. I know it gets old when there are so many people asking the same basic questions!!

Lori

[Stella1952]

I am wondering, as others have mentioned, if you are overwicking. I can understand the color change with vanillas, but the spring rain isn't a particularly heavy oil...

Was the wax fresh?

When you say "changes to an ugly color" - can you be more specific?

Any chance of a photo?

PS If you are unhappy with the jars, eBay them.

[topofmurrayhill]

Some fragrance oils will change color from the heat of the flame.

You could also be depositing a layer of soot on the top of the wax and discoloring it if there isn't enough oxygen to support the flames. That's my first guess since you have it happening with 3 different fragrance oils and your containers sound like they're aggressively wicked.

Another thing that might be relevant is you have to back off from 1 oz pp for a few of the less compatible fragrance oils in J-223. Those are often pretty strong and will work fine at 1/2 to 3/4 oz.

Make one tester with more conservative wicking and another with less FO and see what happens with them.

[Lori Reismeier]

Stella, I tried to upload a pic for you but unfortunately I wasn't successful. After 3 attempts with separate pictures; they were all to large for the forum limit. Basically what happens is the color fades/lightens and has a black tint throughout.

I'm going to do what you suggested Top; less FO and wick back again. Maybe too much fragrance oil is the inhibitor of a FMP. I'm hoping anyway, otherwise I'll be no further ahead than I was ten days ago.

I'll let you know what my results are. Thanks so much for your input...it's GREATLY appreciated!

[topofmurrayhill]

Remember it's best to test only one change at a time. One test would be the same wicks you've been using but less FO. The other would be the same amount of FO you've been using but smaller wicks.

FO generally makes wax melt more easily, but it can also affect how the wick burns. Both the wicking and the FO amount can influence your melt pool as well as the problem you're having with soot settling on the wax. That's why it may be easier to figure out what to do if you test the changes separately.

Good luck, hope you get it worked out.

[Michi]

I too think you are probably overwicking, at least with two 51z's in a 3" diameter jar.

Remember, you don't have to get a FMP on the first couple of burns. A lot of times the hang up will catch up as the candle burns down b/c the glass will get hotter as it burns down.

I use two 44-24-18's for my 4" diameter jars. They are square and at first were driving me nuts b/c of the hangup in the corners and sides, but on about the third or fourth burn it all catches up and is super clean.

HTH

[Lori Reismeier]

Update...

I have poured 9 oz. Chocolate and Rose with less fragrance. I am letting the curing process take place and will update you as the week progresses. I also revisited posts on the board about wick sizes vs. jar sizes. I did that because one site candle supplier wick suggestion chart was different from a print out I had from another (51-32-18z, 3-4" jar vs. 3.5-4" jar). Maybe I'm over analyzing.

I just sold 4 and 6 oz. Hex jars for Christmas and I have had three people say "they burn so long, you're losing money." I have used Hex jars for quite some time and was always please with the results( after testing beyond testing). Repeat Customer comments like that just make me think...

Back to my 9 oz. Melting Pots... I'm wondering if old dye has any affect. The dye I'm using is probably 18 months old. HOW OLD IS TOO OLD WHEN IT COMES TO LIQUID DYE?

[Lori Reismeier]

I just wanted to give an update of my testing. I did retest Chocolate/Spring Rain/ Warm Vanilla Sugar... Refresher: J223, 9 oz. Melting pot jar, pinch uv inhib, using 60-44-18z. I decreased FO to 7/8 ounce per lb.

I am getting a FMP, approx. 1/2" deep on third burn; AFTER burning it for 6 hours the third time. My total burn time has been almost 18 hours. This result is seen in all three scents. There isn't a lot of difference between the 62-52-18z other than soot on the 62 and none on the 60. I do trim my wick and then quickly relight when a mushroom forms. When the candle has been totally burned, there is a thin film of wax smudge on the jar... enough to be annoying that the jar isn't clear..Does anyone experience the same thing with J223? CD wicks create a lot of soot so I haven't even finished the burn with those.

My questions become: Does anyone else experience this? Is it acceptable and short of using less FO again, does anyone have any other suggestions. Thanks!

[topofmurrayhill]

One of the main suggestions you got was that the container could be overwicked. It's not clear to me whether you have tried wicking down.

CD wicks don't inherently make a lot of soot. They are clean burning wicks. Soot would typically indicate that they're too large.

Your basic test should be burning the candle for roughly 1 hour per inch of diameter. Trim before lighting but not during the course of the test burn. Once you have a candle that works decently with this type of test, you can see how it behaves in longer sessions.

[Lori Reismeier]

Thanks for responding Top.

I have wicked down. I'm using a 51-32-18z and a CD 14. My testing included burning for 3 hours, the diameter of the jar. Black soot has disappeared. But I've also lost the FMP. At the 3 hour point I had almost 1/2 inch to go to liquify the top and a melt pool of approximately 1/4 inch deep. I lit the next day and did two separate burns after cooling for 6 hours in between and still unable to "Catch up." I did both types of burning at the same time. (Once inch per jar diameter and Marathon - with separate jars, of course.) Sorry I should have clarified that earlier. After burning the standard test (1 hr. per inch) several times, I have 1/4 inch hang-up relatively high on the jar and a little less than 1/3 of the jar to go. It has thinned with each burn but still very present. My prognosis would be that it won't disappear by the final burn.

So...I can eventually (after third time of burning for 6+ hours) get a FMP with the 62-52-18z and 60-44-18z (7/8 oz.) FO with some sooting in a marathon burn. Thus far, I have been unable to achieve a FMP with the CD 14 and 51-31-18z, (7/8 oz. FO) but the sooting has disappeared. I have not marathon burned CD 14 and 51-32-18z.

I'm feeling defeated by these jars. In the past I have done only Hex but I wanted a different look. Maybe I need to rethink the new look.

I will continue with the present testing and report my findings again. Maybe it will help others.......

THANKS AGAIN!

[SatinDucky]

I have 1/4 inch hang-up relatively high on the jar and a little less than 1/3 of the jar to go. It has thinned with each burn but still very present. My prognosis would be that it won't disappear by the final burn.

This may be true and it may not. It's very difficult to guess what it will do in the final 1/3. They do tend to get hotter the deeper you go since the heat gets more concentrated inside the glass. To be sure, it's best to continue testing to the end before discounting it.

[Lori Reismeier]

UPDATE....Hi everyone! I've finished by testing of the Spring Rain and Warm Vanilla Sugar. Results are Spring Rain burned nicely with 51-32-18z/J223/9 oz. Melting Pot/7/8 oz FO. It took five burns to clean the hangup but was eventually a success! The only thing I didn't care for was that the wax did discolor some/lose color after it solidified. BUT, I can live with that as it was probably only something I would notice. The Warm Vanilla Sugar was a little more difficult...I used the same amount of FO but the hangup was still present until about the 7-8th burn. (My burn times were 3-3.5 hours for this jar.) I may do another pour just to retest as I'd like to stick with the 51-32-18z in this jar. I ditched the rose and chocolate for now. Once I 'perfect' the Spr. Rain and WVSugar in this jar, I'll move on.

Thanks for all your insight. The jar is a little difficult (for me) but it does 'look good' when it's a success. There is hope for everyone out there! HA HA

Lori

[SatinDucky]

I may do another pour just to retest as I'd like to stick with the 51-32-18z in this jar.

You do realize that just one wick is not always going to work in that jar, right? There are some FOs that need to be wicked up or down, from the "standard" size that usually works.

Glad to hear those caught up

[Lori Reismeier]

Yep, I get that. I'm going to to retest same fragrances again, 'just to be sure'...

Thanks again!