Need Advice

[8-GRAN-ONES]

I have been making candles a short time, I know compaired to alot of you ladies..

I started about 9 months ago..I have spent hundreds of hours in testing...

I go thru 30 to 40 FO's and am lucky to get 5 or so keepers out of that..Is this normal?

I am buying from Good sources..I believe I'm putting my candles together right..

I use 100% GB 415..it seems like this soy does not like to give a good HT..

Most have a wonderful CT..but when I light it up..nothing..

I cure from 1 to 3 wks..and have even cured some longer, if they are ones that I really like..I have tested some and within 15 min..wow it smells up a whole room..So I know that I can smell..lol

I would appreciate your comments..

[Sharon in PA]

Ruth, How is your melt pool? I know I discovered a WORLD of difference when I changed wicks. I think it is a matter of hitting on the right one for your wax, and wicking enough, by that I mean, getting the right size wick for the job. A hotter wick makes all the difference.

I understand your frustration, and I know that sooner or later, you will have an "a-ha!!" moment; it may take some changes.

How many other waxes have you tried before you chose this one?

[8-GRAN-ONES]

I have tried Ecosoy Advanced..and also Enchanted lites millinium...I use 4" diameter jars..and 2 CD wicks..normally Size 12..but it can range from 8's to 14's..

I am getting a good melt pool..I can't wait for the awww..lol

Yes I am getting frusterated.. I kinda feels like butting your head

against a wall sometimes..

[WaxFlower]

I have been making candles a short time, I know compaired to alot of you ladies..

I started about 9 months ago..I have spent hundreds of hours in testing...

I go thru 30 to 40 FO's and am lucky to get 5 or so keepers out of that..Is this normal?

I am buying from Good sources..I believe I'm putting my candles together right..

I use 100% GB 415..it seems like this soy does not like to give a good HT..

Most have a wonderful CT..but when I light it up..nothing..

I cure from 1 to 3 wks..and have even cured some longer, if they are ones that I really like..I have tested some and within 15 min..wow it smells up a whole room..So I know that I can smell..lol

I would appreciate your comments..

Wish I could give you some advice on wicking 415. I too have been working with this wax and it's been hit or miss with different fo's, (more miss than hit ).

I've been at this hobby for almost a year now. I'm at the point where I'm not so sure about what I'm doing anymore. I've tried 700 series wicks but wasn't happy with the funny "fuel" type smell that they would put off when burning. The LX wicks seem to work okay, but for me, the HT results were just okay (when I would get close enough to the candle, almost burning my face).

I'm digging into the nitty gritty details about different wicks and trying to learn the "real differences" between them. I too am looking for a good scent throw, both hot and cold. I seem to get a great CT with most fo's in my 415 but a good HT is a different story. Is there really a wick that works better for good HT? Wish I knew...

Good luck to you 8. I'll keep you posted with my HT success with this wax when and if I get it figured out.

Edited to say: I've recently tested fo's from Candlescience and they seem to be better than most other suppliers that I have tried.

[8-GRAN-ONES]

hey waxflower...I eases my mind to know that someone else is having trouble..I was beginning to think it was me..lol..

I have tried every wick I know..I have quite a stockpile of them..lol.

I really wanted to stick with the 100% soy..but am really having second thoughts..When I read here about others having great success with the

HT with para soy blends..I might just give that a try..Because I am using some of the same FO's that have been recommended..I am like you..sometimes I almost burn myself trying to smell..something besides my hair burning..:undecided

Wax Flower PM me and I will share what FO's that I do have that are working for me..

Also those that are doing a para soy blend..what would you recommend on mixing Para % with my GB 415?

[WaxFlower]

Ruth, How is your melt pool? I know I discovered a WORLD of difference when I changed wicks. I think it is a matter of hitting on the right one for your wax, and wicking enough, by that I mean, getting the right size wick for the job. A hotter wick makes all the difference.

I understand your frustration, and I know that sooner or later, you will have an "a-ha!!" moment; it may take some changes.

How many other waxes have you tried before you chose this one?

Hi Sharon.

If you don't mind me asking, what type of wicks between the cored and coreless have you been successful with in this 415 wax?

TIA for any advice.

[8-GRAN-ONES]

My most successful has been the CD wicks..

[WaxFlower]

hey waxflower...I eases my mind to know that someone else is having trouble..I was beginning to think it was me..lol..

I have tried every wick I know..I have quite a stockpile of them..lol.

I really wanted to stick with the 100% soy..but am really having second thoughts..When I read here about others having great success with the

HT with para soy blends..I might just give that a try..Because I am using some of the same FO's that have been recommended..I am like you..sometimes I almost burn myself trying to smell..something besides my hair burning..:undecided

Wax Flower PM me and I will share what FO's that I do have that are working for me..

Also those that are doing a para soy blend..what would you recommend on mixing Para % with my GB 415?

It's funny that you mention parasoy. I have a sample of parasoy that I'm tempted to put my time, energy and money into testing. Heck, paraffin will throw just about any fo. I get very discouraged with the 415 until I read about other chandlers success stories with this wax. I feel that if someone else can make it work for them, then I should be able to make it work for me too.

Your definitely not alone, hang in there. Thank you for offering to share with me the fo's that are working for you.

[WaxFlower]

My most successful has been the CD wicks..

I haven't tried CD's yet. CD's are on my list to try next. Have you tried cottons?

[perkyaim99]

I also am going through soy wick woes. I have ordered sampler kits of all kinds to test, CD, LX, HTP, Cotton, Zinc, CSN, 700's, RRD, Performa. When is enough, enough? I too am thinking this wax isn't worth it, I like it for tarts and wickless but I just seriously don't think it's worth all the work, all this testing just means higher candle prices for customers. Cotton seems to give the best HT but mushrooms. I just tried palm wax. I think the CT is much stronger than soy and I have had great luck with scents and wicking it. I keep a 5 subject notebook full of wick and container info I read on this board, so that helps me with where to start wick wise, I use what's worked for other people. For example for soy & 4" container I have:

2-LX14

LX28

2-755 for most scents, 2 750 for undyed, 2 760-65 harder to burn scents

Then that way later on down the line I'm not looking up old posts, it's all there in my CT notebook. My DH thought I was a loser until he discovered a Fly Fishing Forum and now he's just as hooked as I am.

[WaxFlower]

I also am going through soy wick woes. I have ordered sampler kits of all kinds to test, CD, LX, HTP, Cotton, Zinc, CSN, 700's, RRD, Performa. When is enough, enough? I too am thinking this wax isn't worth it, I like it for tarts and wickless but I just seriously don't think it's worth all the work, all this testing just means higher candle prices for customers. Cotton seems to give the best HT but mushrooms. I just tried palm wax. I think the CT is much stronger than soy and I have had great luck with scents and wicking it. I keep a 5 subject notebook full of wick and container info I read on this board, so that helps me with where to start wick wise, I use what's worked for other people. For example for soy & 4" container I have:

2-LX14

LX28

2-755 for most scents, 2 750 for undyed, 2 760-65 harder to burn scents

Then that way later on down the line I'm not looking up old posts, it's all there in my CT notebook. My DH thought I was a loser until he discovered a Fly Fishing Forum and now he's just as hooked as I am.

Thanks Perk for posting that info, every little bit helps when your learning. Wicking soy is definitely a PITA.

[anabanana's candles]

I use 415 with eco 14 wicks and get great results. I haven't had but one scent not throw well in it. I do use 1 oz scent to 12 oz wax, but it holds it just fine and my scent throw is amazing. Some are lighter than others, but I can smell all fo them. I melt to 170 add FO and color and pour slushy which usially happens between 90-100. Good luck.

[anabanana's candles]

I use 415 with eco 14 wicks and get great results. I haven't had but one scent not throw well in it. I do use 1 oz scent to 12 oz wax, but it holds it just fine and my scent throw is amazing. Some are lighter than others, but I can smell all fo them. I melt to 170 add FO and color and pour slushy which usially happens between 90-100. Good luck.

[SonShine]

I too am frustrated. I've even given up a bit lately and don't mess with my candles like I used to. I tell ya....the days of staying up till 3am making test candles has certainly gone away. I'm just tired and grumpy from it, maybe? lol

There are so many wonderful people here, so it keeps me going. All I can say is hang in there...I'm with all of you, in the same boat.

Maybe we could help share with each other? I think I have more different types of wax than I'd care to admit...and FO's? Thats another story! If my husband knew....oh man. I'd be in serious trouble!

Suzy

[8-GRAN-ONES]

thanks anabanana..That is one wick that I have not tried..I will order some and give them a try..Where do you get yours?

[8-GRAN-ONES]

Ok us soy sisters:highfive: need to form a sisterhood..and lets together make this work...

[8-GRAN-ONES]

I'll be truthful defeat has never been easy for me..

[Sharon in PA]

Hi Sharon.

If you don't mind me asking, what type of wicks between the cored and coreless have you been successful with in this 415 wax?

TIA for any advice.

Waxflower: I use a 50/50 blend from F armhouse. I don't use pure soy...:undecided

[Munch]

I am pretty new to this also and have been testing since beginning of this year in Ecosoya Pure. You took the words right out of my mouth when you started this thread. Frustrations in Strong CT and once I lit, absolutely nothing for Hot throw. Since you're using GB415, which I just ordered since CS doesn't offer Ecosoya Pure anymore, I wonder if it's just a Pure Soy thing. I ordered C3 to test that too now. I have tried most wicks CD, LX, RRD, HTP, ECO, CSN -. I have an 8 oz, 2.5" diameter jar and my best performer has been the ECO series. ECO12-14, LX30 and HTP1212-1312 would give me full burn pools BUT, LX mushrooms so bad and HTP smoked so much and mushroomed with real hot glow after I blew it out. ECO12 has been my baseline now in the Ecosoya. Just recently tested the CD wick series after about the 60th test burn threw absolutely NO scent and the wonderful people on this board said try and different wick. But it didn't seem to improve the hot throw and the flame would consistently get smaller no matter what size I used at the 2 1/2 hr mark and I tested from CD14 to CD22s! So, now I'm back to the ECO wick. I had changed up my heat wax temp to 160, cool to 140 and then pour immediately to see if that helped. Not really. Then I called Candlescience this week and customer support said they recommend heating wax to 180, take off the heat, immediately add FO to bind to wax and stir gently for 1-2 min. THen pour at desired pour temp. That's what I was doing before. So, I can empathize with everyone's frustration and I personally am thinking that maybe it's just the FO's that aren't compatible with the wax and you just have to keep trying until you find one that binds. I can tell you that the 3 FO I have tested from Oregon Trail have had a wonderful Hot throw:). Candlescience mistletoe was great. I definatly don't have the experience as most on this board but wanted to pass along any info that might help or maybe spark an idea to try.

[WaxFlower]

Munch,

Thanks for your post, every little bit of info helps.

[Billie]

So far the only one Iv'e wicked well were htp 104 -8 ounce jelly jar, and htp 105 for 9.5 decoden jar. I just tried cd 20 for a 3 in. straight jar and couldn't smell anything until I blew it out. LOL It did have a full melt pool in 3 hours though, about 1/4 in. deep. I thought the htp and cd were pretty much the same but I'm going to try an htp 1212 for the 3 in. just for the heck of it. I do know that 3 in. is the max size for a single wick in soy. I am just making for me and my family so I use 1.5 ounces. Others use 1 ounce. I add FO at 175 and pour pretty cool. There is a sticky at the top of the page for scents that do well in soy, not all do. The greatest thing I have learned is to search using a plus sign + between two words. example; wicking+soy. This is what little I know for now. HTH

[8-GRAN-ONES]

Yes thanks for the info..I just today ordered from CS some beeswax and palm wax..I had posted sometime ago about MIA Bella Candles..A friend of mine sells them..about 2 yrs or so ago that totally changed their formulations..because there sales were really falling off because people were complaining of no HT..From What I have been told they now use Soy, Palm, and Beeswax in their formulation..Of course we will never know just how they do it..But I am going to do some experimenting..I know from an earlier thread if was said that you should not put more that 1/2 oz of beeswax to 1 lb of soy..so I will start there with seeing how it will work..and add a small % of palm too..Keep your fingers crossed..I hope to get my order next week,,then of course I have to let them cure..wish me good luck,,,I will report my results..

[SonShine]

Gran...

I didn't know it was a do-able thing to add Palm to Soy? lol Knowing me, I probably missed a post or two on the subject??

I made a Pink Sugar, 3" , 8oz tumbler, with 1oz FO. I let it cure a week and when I lit it, I could actually smell it really well, with a nice melt pool! lol Before this one, I had always gone up to 10% FO...so, is it the less is more aspect here? I dunno. lol I used a CDN 18 wick..no soot, no mushroom.

Heck I'm starting to think it's a hit or miss thing! lol

Suzy

[Stella1952]

I've been following the difficulties folks have with soy waxes and palm waxes here for some time. I think the basis of nearly EVERYONE'S troubles is they are not testing/pouring methodically enough. First, let me say that NO ONE likes testing!! We all wanna hurry up and rush through so we can make the candles we desire! But without good testing methodology, you are gonna be in a continuous state of confusion! You MUST get a "standard" going to which you measure your continuing testing results!

Be SURE when testing that you do the same thing at the same time at the same temperature EVERY time (unless you are deliberately varying a part of your procedure to correct a problem) - it's like making a cake with the same ingredients, but one time, you only stir it by hand for 30 seconds before pouring it into the greased glass pan and the next time you beat it with a mixer for 3 minutes before pouring into the greased/floured aluminum pan; then you bake one at 300° one time and at 375° the next - GUESS WHAT - the cakes will NOT turn out the same!! This is why you can follow the written ingredients and instructions on Gramma's recipes but they never turn out the same for you as they did for her. Your procedures are different in some ways and perhaps even the ingredients have changed over the years! The raw ingredients are only the beginning of the story - how you assemble, mix, "cook" and cool those ingredients is just as important, if not more!

Here's what we did that helped us to simplify things:

First, we wrote down EVERYTHING we were planning to do from beginning to end. We FOLLOWED that plan, step by step! If we spaced out and varied something, we made a note of that just in case... we took notes and made observations as we went along so we could compare them later. It's better to take too many notes than not enough.

We use ONLY one brand of soy wax - NatureWax C3.

We use ONLY one brand of wick - CDNs.

We add ONLY Universal Soy Additive (from JBN).

We used ONLY 8 oz. widemouth glass canning jars.

That's our "basic" candle.

We waited 48 hours, then started our burn tests. We placed the candles in the same place in the house each time; turned them the same amount, at the same intervals; burned them the same length of time, etc. A burn/wick test is not complete until the candle has burned ALL THE WAY to the end.

So without adding dye or FO, we dialed in our desired results by varying the additive, temperature, wick size, melting/pouring procedures, etc.

So we now had a "standard" with which we were familiar and could reproduce the same results time after time. That became OUR "normal" or "standard" candle.

When we developed issues we wanted to address (frosting, for example), we went back to our "normal" candle and started varying our procedures or ingredients to discover what worked best for us and what was the ingredient or technique that was causing our problem.

When we wanted to try a different container, we simply had to produce our "normal" candle, then get the wicking dialed in for that container.

When you find a "standard" for YOUR candle(s), you have something solid upon which to compare and test new ideas or techniques. You have to be very methodical in HOW you test! It doesn't much matter WHICH wax you choose - make a basic set of decisions about the brand of wax, type of wick, additives, and methods and then test THOROUGHLY until your results are the same, time after time before going on to other variables.

When something isn't working right for you, take a step BACK to that basic, "normal" candle and see if you can correct the problem from there or isolate what it is that's causing your difficulty.

I call this learning to walk before I run. It's boring and tedious, but I have a goal toward which I am working: to produce the best candle that I can, time after time!

HTH

[WaxFlower]

Very well said Stella,

Thank you for taking the time to post your opinions and suggestions.

I agree, good testing methodology and patience is a crucial part of candle making. It seems when I try to "rush" through making a candle and not really "thinking" about what I am doing, is when I don't achieve the results that I'm looking for.

You made a great point with baking a cake and not preparing your ingredients the same way every time. In doing this, your end results will vary. It's important to follow consistent techniques to achieve consistent results.