kw2703 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 I tried the search feature, but did not find much info about palm container wax. I have been testing 4 different wicks in my palm jars. I have noticed about 10-15 minutes into the burn that the flame gets huge and it burns straight down really quickly. It burns down to an air pocket. I have taken all the precautions that I can think of to avoid this (tapping on jar, pouring slowly, pouring at less than 180, using the heat gun). This isn't the first time I have tested these jars with the wicks. My jar is 4.25" and right now I am testing (2)C-70's, (2) CSN-9's, (2) LX 14 (have tested the 16's with same issue) and (2) RRD 34 (have tested the 37's). What is causing the air pockets and the large flames? What else can I do to avoid this happening? It's driving me nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzanneg Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Ok on the CSN wicks 9 is way to small for that size opening, I use 2 CSN 11 on my 10 & 14 oz keepsake jars and the opening is 3 inches! but it will depend on your fo's you use! I use a CSN 9 on my 8 oz square mason jars. The other wicks I can't help ya there!I do a repour to help with the craters and air pockets! It burns so much better but if anyone has a better idea please post it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perkyaim99 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 I tried the search feature, but did not find much info about palm container wax.Maybe try a search for Glass Glow, it's a type of palm container wax from CS, you may have better luck searching. I did a search for wick glass glow and got 2 pages of info about wicking with that wax. Even if you're not using that type of palm container, it would be a place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernGal Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 I don't know if I can really help, I don't use palm. I have experienced air pockets and I got rid of them by pouring slower. Hth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kw2703 Posted July 14, 2007 Author Share Posted July 14, 2007 The representative at Candlescience suggested the two CSN-9's. So far, it's burning pretty cleanly, but I will try to go up a size just to see how that works for me. It's tough because their wick guide doesn't have a suggestion for my size jar and also their wick descriptions don't tell you what size wick to use for what size jar. Does anyone have access to that for their CSN wicks? I really like those and the LX wicks...so far those are the ones burning the most clean and have the best melt pool. Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perkyaim99 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Read the last post from Stella. She lists sites that carry CDN, also called Stablio. The links in her message have more info on melt pool diameter etc.http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54831HTHthis might be just what you're looking forhttp://www.wickit.net/recommendations.html#scdSORRY THAT IS FOR CDN WICKS!!! NOT CSN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I think you need a larger wick size. If the CSNs are sized similarly to the CDs and CDNs, I would suggest trying a 16 for starters. Keep the wick trimmed! What FO load are you using?The large flame happens when the wick hits an air pocket and more wick than is needed is exposed. It is very important to be sure the wick is surrounded with wax and that it is kept trimmed to 1/4". If it does hit an air pocket, trim it immediately.Palm wax does not like a cool pour. Pour between 180° and 190° (or on the high end of whatever temp the manufacturer recommends).I dunno what the heat gun has to do with pouring... but I do know that palm wax has a very small time between when it is liquid and when it becomes solid; the wax does not crystallize the same when reheated with a heat gun. Palm wax is NOT like soy or paraffin in this regard! Did you poke relief holes and do a second pour? Cool palm wax very slowly and poke relief holes while the candle is cooling. Air pockets are common with palm wax. They happen as the wax contracts and crystallizes. Relief holes are needed to allow air bubbles to collect and vent and to open developing caverns to allow the hot wax to fill them. After it has completely cooled, repour to fill in the relief holes. Jostling the container around as the candle sets up is a good idea, especially right after poking holes - helps the air bubbles to escape. If the bubbles cannot reach the surface, a cavern forms... HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kw2703 Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 Stella,Thanks so much for the help. My wax holds 1.5 oz/lb FO, so that's what I have been using. I am not sure if CSN's are close to CDN's and CD's, so I will just have to keep playing with the sizes. So far I have tried two CSN 9's, I think I may have to go up a size. The only other thing I haven't done is heating up the jar, so could that play a role in the air pockets? I was told to use a heat gun or use the oven, which do you all recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I made my first palm containers yesterday (Glass Glow, IGI 2322). I heated my oven to 150 and kept my glass in there until ready to pour, poured at 190-195 turned off the oven and put the candles in there to cool...so they cooled really slow. They crystallized beautifully, but there were air pockets, I think it's hard to avoid in this wax (heck I get them in soy so maybe it's me!) Unfortunately I waited until they cooled to poke my holes and it was hard to do. I haven't done a repour yet, but I did heat gun one of the small containers just to see and it changed the look of the top 1/4" of the candle and I only melted a very thin layer on top. I can see that this wax is not as forgiving as soy, but boy the look of it and SMELL of the candles really make it worth the effort. I only used 1.3 oz of frag in 2 # of wax...it smells stronger CT than the soy candles I poured the day before using 1 oz in 1#. Can't wait to try to burn them....I know I have to wait a week...darn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Air pockets are a fact of life with palm wax, whether you are pouring votives or pillars or containers. If you pour a palm wax candle and do not poke relief holes and do not get any air pockets, you have achieved a rare, rare thing! The only reason I know of to heat the containers is because palm wax is really ticky about thermal shock - it doesn't like hitting a real cool surface! I have found that heating the molds is less important than is controlling the cooling. Palm likes to cool very slooowly. I am too lazy to preheat my molds, so I pour into the molds which are set on a cookie rack in a baking pan. Then I move the whole thing into the oven, which has been preheated on its lowest setting (not more than 205°. Once the candles are in the oven, I simply turn it off and go away until it's time to start poking relief holes.I poke many times in several sessions, until it becomes difficult to do so. Usually pulling the rack out and pushing it back in jostles the molds enough that the air bubbles will collect and rise to the surface and break. Sometimes I can see them accumulating just under the surface and I make sure to mess up the surface so that they can escape and pop.Crystallizing palm wax is never going to have a top like soy or paraffin. It is a different beast in that respect. You can do a second pour and many times, it will look pretty good, but it will never be baby-butt smooth like soy or paraffin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzanneg Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Air pockets are a fact of life with palm wax, whether you are pouring votives or pillars or containers. If you pour a palm wax candle and do not poke relief holes and do not get any air pockets, you have achieved a rare, rare thing! The only reason I know of to heat the containers is because palm wax is really ticky about thermal shock - it doesn't like hitting a real cool surface! I have found that heating the molds is less important than is controlling the cooling. Palm likes to cool very slooowly. I am too lazy to preheat my molds, so I pour into the molds which are set on a cookie rack in a baking pan. Then I move the whole thing into the oven, which has been preheated on its lowest setting (not more than 205°. Once the candles are in the oven, I simply turn it off and go away until it's time to start poking relief holes.I poke many times in several sessions, until it becomes difficult to do so. Usually pulling the rack out and pushing it back in jostles the molds enough that the air bubbles will collect and rise to the surface and break. Sometimes I can see them accumulating just under the surface and I make sure to mess up the surface so that they can escape and pop.Crystallizing palm wax is never going to have a top like soy or paraffin. It is a different beast in that respect. You can do a second pour and many times, it will look pretty good, but it will never be baby-butt smooth like soy or paraffin.Stella You said that right! I do a repour anyway and get it over with! They burn so much better when I do! Actually my melt pool is much much better too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandlekrazy Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Suzanne,Do you use Glass Glow? Just curious as to what temp you do your 2nd pour at? I haven't done it yet as I've been looking for info on how you reheat the colored/frag wax and at what temp to repour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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