Help, GB 444 is driving me NUTS!!

[Jami]

I have been testing the 444 since last week and this wax is driving me to drink :undecided lol

I have poured it any where from 125 to 140 and even poured slushy once to see what would happen.

Tonite I poured 3 different scents at 130, put them in a box and sat it in the oven to cool. All of them had frosting but no wetspots.

If I pour between 130 - 140, I get a mottled top and half to zap it with my heat gun but at least there isn't frosting lol

What is the "trick" to this wax? I can't get those smooth creamy tops like I did with my 100% soy

I have a 50 lb box and I really want to get pretty candles before I am done with the box lol

Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!

[soycool]

Hi Jami,

I too think 444 is tricky. I have been pouring at the same temp as you but my tops look rough. So today I am gonna pour at 150 in a heated jar and cool in a warm room. As far as the wicks I liked how the htp's performed, the lx's had too much mushrooming. The strawberry definitely did throw more for me almost immediately. Although the 444 can hold a larger fragrance load when I am stirring I can almost tell that it is not incorporating completely, which could maybe be our problems. I almost think I had some fo seepage on the tops, but I maxed out fo amounts to really test the wax.

With my pure soy I always poured at 150 and had great looking candles just not the scent throw, but a couple of days ago was burning a candle I had cured for awhile and it burned great and smelled great and of course it was my old wax. All in all I think add fo hot and pour hot.

Natalie

[stacien]

Just out of curiosity why did you switch. If you were happy with the 100% keep using it. I had the same problems with 444 and 464. I live in a very big house that is always cold and there was no consistancy so I gave up. Yet I have the 415 down to a tee. I was just looking for a better way to keep it from frosting. But its not worth it. I bought two Beanpods recently and the the brown Oatmeal Raisin Cookie is all frosted on top. We are too hard on ourselves.

[Jami]

I am switching because my previous wax doesn't give me a good throw on several fragrances. I had read other reviews on those fragrances and the awesome throw they were getting with the 415.

I found a special on the 444, read reviews and thought well since its the 415 soy with just an additive, I will get the best of both worlds. Ummmm so far NOT lol

I did get 10 lbs of the 415 to compared to the 444 and I really like how the 415 has done so I ordered 50 lbs of that today from Millcreek. I think I am going to end up using the 444 to make ALOT of tarts and stick to the 415 for my jars if I can't get the "quirks" out.

Its a shame that the 444 does have good hot throw to make ugly candles lol.

[stacien]

Millcreek is where I purchase my 415. Try some of their FO's too I highly recommend them. I haven't found one yet from there that doesn't throw well in 415. Honestly I love the 415. The only thing that made me think about it was the frosting issue. I wasn't that concerned with the throw because the majority of Fo's throw well. That is what is great about this site because you can find out ahead of time what fo's from what suppliers work well with soy with the right research. I do have a whole bunch I poured with 415 over two years ago. They are a little frosted but their scents are as strong as ever.

[Jami]

Are you peeking on my computer?

Last night I ordered 50 lbs of 415, the sampler fragrance pack and 100 clamshells from Millcreek. When I saw it was only going to cost me 60 cents more in shiping to add the fragrance pack and clamshells, I just couldn't resist. It's my story and I am sticking to it :whistle: I was a little surprised that the shipping from Millcreek was only $1 more for the 50 lb box than what I have paid from 2 suppliers in KY. I am NOT complaining because now I have another place I can buy from and know the shipping is VERY reasonable for me!

I am still on the hunt for a GOOD vanilla and heard the extreme vanilla from Millcreek was awesome. The one thing I THOUGHT I had on my list was the birthday cake and some how I clicked blueberry muffin instead. I have NO idea how I did that :undecided

[stacien]

Oh Jami, I love Extreme Vanilla. I am not a vanilla lover and I love this vanilla. I will admit there are some people on this board who don't care for it but that is because they like the more subtle vanilla's. I used this one for wedding favors this last fall and the bride and groom went nuts over it.

I only order Birthday Cake from MC. I did try others and didn't enjoy them as much. How is the Blueberry Muffins? I did not try that one because I already use too many bakery scents. My sister has been begging me for that one.

[soycool]

Jami, quick question I think you said you had been using KY125? Which is a cottonseed blend, is this correct. And millcreek 125 is brand name for gw 415 which is a pure soy. Do I have this straight? I might try one more pure soy.

Thanks

Natalie

[Jami]

Hey Natalie -

You are correct the KY 125 is soy with cottonseed. I recently finished up a box of that but I couldn't for the life of me get some scents to throw in it.

Millcreek's 100% soy is the 415 or the 444 without any additives. I am going to find some use for this 444 if it kills me lol I might even use a blend of the 2 and pour cooler just to see what happens. I might just settle for pouring the 444 hot and zap the mottled tops with a heat gun, at least I won't have frosting that way :undecided

I had bought 10 lbs of the 415 and was testing side by side with the 444 so I could have something to compare the additive with. I just wish I could figure out why I am getting frosting with the additive and not getting frosting without it. The temps have SOMETHING to do with it. If I covered my KY 125 and let it cool slower, I got frosting. The owner of KY Candle said that you want soy to cool off quicker to prevent frosting and if I were using paraffin I would be correct in covering the candles to cool slower.

Just something else to play with tomorrow lol.

[NoOneSpecial]

Are you heat gunning the tops of the 444? They do set up kind of ugly, but the heat gun makes them as smooth as a baby's bottom.

[Jami]

Are you heat gunning the tops of the 444? They do set up kind of ugly, but the heat gun makes them as smooth as a baby's bottom.

Pouring hot and using a heat gun is the only way I can get smooth tops with this wax. At least I don't get frosting when I do it this way but there HAS to be a way to get smooth tops like I do when I pour "slushy" with the 415. It's just frustrating lol

By the way, do you find with this wax that you get more wet spots than with 100% soy? I can think the candle is fine and a day or two later I look at the candle only to find all these ungodly wet spots where it appears the candle has pulled away from the jar because its a harder wax. I know it doesn't affect the candle burn and we are going to get them at times no matter what we do but I sure would like to minimize them.

[NoOneSpecial]

I have not had "any" wet spots with this wax (knock on wood). I'm coming from the EL M wax that was full of wet spots so I'm in love. The only quirk I've found about this wax are the way the tops set up, but a heat gun solves that for me.

[Jami]

Well I know wet spots can develop when the temps around the jars are cooler and since I did have the air on after I took them out of the box they cooled off in, that could easily have caused my wet spots :undecided

What temps do you pour at? Do you heat the jars first too?

You have given me hope at least

[NoOneSpecial]

I do not heat my jars. I used too but I found it unnecessary. I pour hotter than recommended. I pour at 145-150 and the candle sets up perfectly except for the tops. I'd rather lose a little time at the end to save time at the beginning. They burn beautifully, too and the scent throw is awesome.

[pocha]

I just poured some testers and, so far, pouring at 150 for me (surprisingly)provided the best results...a 90% smooth top. The cooler i poured, the rougher the tops. My kitchen stays quite warm during the pouring process and i use 8oz tins. I was very happy with the results so far...now i just need to let the candles cure to test scent throw.

[erinmfritz]

I have great luck by pouring around 125-130. Sometimes I get the ugly tops, but that is just soy and doesn't bother me. I do add about 3% stearic to it, seems to help.

[LynnS]

Made 16 candles yesterday. Testing this 444 wax for almost 4 months. Today was first time I have had to use the heat gun but always did with the 402. I am fine with that though.

I am getting the wet spots.My basement is cold and the jars were cold. Cannot wait till just a few more degrees hotter in the basement.Do have a electric heater hooked up now. Getting ready to make 30 more candles so need to get my jars warm. I don't have frosting throughout the candle but at the bottom I saw some white. Probably didn't mix it good enough. Not real noticeable but had one of the candles show some white at the bottom.

Glad to hear so many good rants about scent throw. I always burn mine soon after making them. The candle hasn't had time to cure.As time goes on I am sure it will be better.Some fragrances are that way. I need to shut my tart warmer off, washer and dryer and the stove(cooking) and just maybe I can smell the candle much better. If I close it in a room it is fine but I want the whole house or at least 2 rooms to scent and go down the hall. That is the way I test. Must cover a large area.

LynnS