Kelly Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Ok, I've been talking to a few people who sell candles online and discovered that many candlemakers/sellers do not have insurance. It is hard to get for some people, especially if they are home owners, but how necessary is it to have immediately when you first start? It's not really affordable.I'm sure I won't get many responses on this but are there people here who sell candles and do NOT have insurance? If you would rather not answer this publically, please PM me (your PM'd answers will remain confidential).I realize not having insurance is a risk, but I'm sure it's a risk some candlemakers have to take due to the cost of insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ah-soy Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Personally, in this litigous society I wouldn't sell without it. Affordable insurance is now offered through the Handmade Beauty Network and the Soap Makers Guild (same policy/same company I think!). You must join one or the other organization to purchase the insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted December 4, 2006 Author Share Posted December 4, 2006 Yeah, I know about that insurance, but has anyone checked them out? How can one be sure than will pay out if necessary? Not to mention the insurance company will just try to argue that your candle was not at fault but that the person burning it was. Insurance companies don't want to pay out if they don't have to, they wiggle and squirm and try EVERYTHING to get out of it.And I'm not sure who thinks $500 is affordable! Yeeps! To me that's tons of money! But that isn't the point of this thread.Thanks for your response, so that's one vote for "Has Insurance". I really don't think I'm going to find anyone who will admit to "Not Having Insurance". But I know they are out there!!Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ah-soy Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 The 'affordable' is in context to what it costs to buy insurance elsewhere IF you can find it...the costs are outrageous and often in the thousands of $$$ range! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted December 4, 2006 Author Share Posted December 4, 2006 The 'affordable' is in context to what it costs to buy insurance elsewhere IF you can find it...the costs are outrageous and often in the thousands of $$$ range!Yes, I know. But you'll still have to try to get them [insurance company] to pay if you do get sued.Anyway! Anyone else willing to cast their vote?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochaMama Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I am strictly small time - I sell lotion bars - and am getting insurance this week. It will cost me about 325-350.I would think - maybe I'm wrong - that the point of the insurance company is to fight the folks who are trying to sue you? Really, it's up to the ins. company to pay out, but at least I don't have to deal with some person who just is looking for money.Ok, just my 2 cents - I am not an insurance expert, so I could be totally off base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katie Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I just feel better having it. I made sure I got it before I started selling. I went through the Handmade Beauty Network. If insurance company is a reputable large company. In my area the quotes I got were $1000 and up so yes I do think $500 was a great deal plus you have an organization behind you. I know the payment is costly up front but it is for a year. Also some craft shows I attend require insurance so I also need it for that. In the end its just better to cover you butt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeB Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Not to mention the insurance company will just try to argue that your candle was not at fault but that the person burning it was. Insurance companies don't want to pay out if they don't have to, they wiggle and squirm and try EVERYTHING to get out of it. That's exactly what you want them to do. Would you rather they just pay out and allow a judgement against you that you make a dangerous, unsafe product? I don't, I want my insurance company to fight tooth and nail for a judgement in my favor. IMO only a fool would sell candles without insurance. $500.00 a year is pretty cheap compared to losing all you assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted December 4, 2006 Author Share Posted December 4, 2006 Not to mention the insurance company will just try to argue that your candle was not at fault but that the person burning it was. Insurance companies don't want to pay out if they don't have to, they wiggle and squirm and try EVERYTHING to get out of it.That's exactly what you want them to do. Would you rather they just pay out and allow a judgement against you that you make a dangerous, unsafe product? I don't, I want my insurance company to fight tooth and nail for a judgement in my favor.IMO only a fool would sell candles without insurance.$500.00 a year is pretty cheap compared to losing all you assets.I meant they will argue with you that they will not pay up (and you may end up having to take them to court - 2 court visits yuck!). I'm sure they will argue with both parties. They don't want to pay out at all, even if you pay for the insurance it'll be hell getting them to pay up if necessary. I've had to deal with this before (not candle related), so unfortuanely I know that is the case. Either way, it's going to be hard to get them to cover your butt if they ever have to, but of course it's better to have that safety net then not to.You wouldn't lose all your assets unless your business was registered as a sole proprietorship. (Unless you meant your business would lose all it's assets in which case yes).Keep the responses coming! I still don't believe there isn't ONE person who didn't start selling (even one candle or B&B product) before having insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scent Cellar Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Having insurance when you are in business is actually as important as having supplies to make your product. It is a necessity in today's world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeriM Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 And not just if someone sues you.. there are so many other reasons to get insurance... most think because they do things in their home that if they have homeowners insurance it's covered... think again !!!If you do home parties and shows and were in an accident - all the product in your vehicle isn't covered by your auto... Insurance companies pay claims they are liable to pay - and also defend you even if your not liable. The only reason a company would more than likely be taken to court is because someone wants either more... or coverage for something that's not covered.I've worked in the insurance industry for almost 20 years.. I even handled claims. The only time I ever denied a claim was when it so wasn't covered - people think because they have insurance - no matter what happens it should be covered.I hate it when the companies get bashed.. it's because of people either trying to cheat or lye to the companies that they've taken the stand they have... I've seen them pay claims that personally I didn't think they should have.. but they have.Just my 2 cents .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted December 4, 2006 Author Share Posted December 4, 2006 I used to work in one too (Medical Insurance though) and where I worked was fine, but I know not all the insurance companies out there are good ones. They don't want to pay! But I'm not going to get into an argument over that, that really isn't what this thread is about.I was just curious if anyone has ever sold a candle before than had insurance. Not all hobbiest can afford insurance. Heck, even if you gave a candle away to someone you thought was a friend you could still get sued. So maybe those who are really new to candle making shouldn't give any away either.I feel like I'm getting attacked in this thread for asking a pretty simple question. I'm not even selling candles, I was just asking for the sake of asking because I know they are out there (those who don't have insurance). I've asked several sellers (online sellers mostly at ebay).Obviously now, those who have sold a candle or two without insurance won't post because they'll feel like they are getting attacked as well. Anyway those who would like to contact me privately can do so, you don't have to post to the thread and anything you tell me will be held in the strictest of confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeriM Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 when I first started.. I gave stuff away... and sold to a few people at work and I didn't have insurance... I'm sure we all have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted December 4, 2006 Author Share Posted December 4, 2006 when I first started.. I gave stuff away... and sold to a few people at work and I didn't have insurance... I'm sure we all have...Thanks, that's exactly what I was curious about. I appreciate your response and your honesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jldorrington Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 i sell to close friends and family people i know i can trust not to do something stupid (leave a candle burning near drapes etc..) i don't have insurance. thats why i started this to make money we are a single income family and having something to make a little spare change off of while being with my daughter is what i wanted.. granted when i have $500 spare i will get the insurance and i sure as hell won't sell to people i don't know before then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristilkleer Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Your insurance will never pay you anyway...I'm not sure what you mean by that? The insurance company will not be covering you or your products...only any liabilities you incur through your products. And yes, you do want your insurance company to fight for you! That's what you're paying them for! It's the same principle as car insurance minus the bonus you may get if a rock hits your windshield, it's there strictly to protect you in the event someone is harmed in any way by one of your products. Insurance companies don't really have a choice whether or not to pay ... if they write you they must cover your damages. The win for them is that you sell a quality and tested product and they never have to pay out. That's years of insurance premiums received for them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristilkleer Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I hate it when the companies get bashed.. it's because of people either trying to cheat or lye to the companies that they've taken the stand they have... I've seen them pay claims that personally I didn't think they should have.. but they have.Just my 2 cents ..Grrr You obviously haven't been in a car accident that wasn't your fault before!Insurance companies are there for one reason...to make money! They hope that you'll pay years and years worth of (outrageous IMO) insurance premiums and never need the insurance company. And if by chance you do get into an accident (OMG now I'm on a rant about auto insurance) with someone that has the same insurance company as you~ well then expect YOUR premiums to go up too! As far as insurance for the sale of candles goes...I do not have insurance. I've never sold a candle but I would hope too. I think once you get big enough to do shows and such you should have insurance. It's just smart to cover yourself...kind like health insurance. But for me I plan on giving them as gifts (human testers!) and maybe selling to friends first. I'm truly hoping that I will only sell to someone with common sense until I get big enough to warrant insurance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindym Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 It is kind of a process. First you test etc...... When I decided to sell wholesale I got insurance. A lot of wholesalers won't even buy from you without it. I had a lot of testers, friends and never had a problem but I burned candles in my home for about 3 months before I even started having friends test them. Then they wanted to buy them, I did sell to friends before I had insurance, but pretty much had insurance a month or so after that, because I wanted to sell wholesale. My insurance is 360 a year and I feel comfortable that my insurance co. would help me out if something happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Di_in_AZ Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 You wouldn't lose all your assets unless your business was registered as a sole proprietorship. (Unless you meant your business would lose all it's assets in which case yes).That is not true. If you are found to be negligent, it doesn't matter if you are sole or LLC, you can be sued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Fields Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 We have been selling candles for ten years. We sold without insurance for the first two years. Our insurance agent said the cost would not justify the very low risk and sales. Once our sales increased, we got insurance, general liability; we should have gone with a different independent insurance agent. They only offered us one company at $850/yr (the cost is based primarily on your annual sales. The cost went up by around $200 a year for the next four years. We paid without question. Then when we got a bill for a big jump to 1800$/yr we started shopping around. Found a great independent insurance agent who got us double the coverage for $825/yr; again, the cost is based on annual sales. Also, this is for general liability insurance, not product liability insurance. To get product liability insurance every company we approached would have to analyze our products (every product) and our production process. Then, if approved, they would dictate the language that had to go on our labels. Finally, the cost would be huge for the annual premium. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 That is not true. If you are found to be negligent, it doesn't matter if you are sole or LLC, you can be sued.Yes. I can get sued, but, they still need prove without a doubt I was at fault. If they were negligent in burning the candle (put it by curtains and left unattended for 6 hours) the case will most likely be thrown out, unless of course I (or whoever since this isn't about me) was at fault.I suppose it is true they could sue both me (or whoever) and the business. But from the research I have done, you are a little more protected with the LLC. (www.sba.gov)I wasn't very clear in my typing, I was a tad upset yesterday that people seemed to be ignoring the topic and taking the opporunity to try to make me "look" dumb, when my question was just a general question about how people started out selling. It's not like I haven't done more than enough research on the topic, I was just curious as to others starting process.I also should have been more specific, that the thread wasn't about me not having or wanting to get insurance but about how others started out and when in their process they were ready for insurance. Anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted December 5, 2006 Author Share Posted December 5, 2006 We have been selling candles for ten years. We sold without insurance for the first two years. Our insurance agent said the cost would not justify the very low risk and sales. Once our sales increased, we got insurance, general liability;...That is very interesting! Thanks for the post. That info will probably helpful to many! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane42 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 We sold at one small show before we had insurance. Even though we had thoroughly tested before we sold, we still were very nervous about the whole thing. We ended up getting insurance before the Fall shows this year. I just hate having to pay it, but it is worth the peace of mind.I used to work for an auto/home insurance company years ago.....the same one that we have. As much as we dislike paying for it, they have always been there when we have needed them. I just hope the company we have our liability insurance for the candles is as good!Good Luck with your survey!Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeriM Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 We have been selling candles for ten years. We sold without insurance for the first two years. Our insurance agent said the cost would not justify the very low risk and sales. Once our sales increased, we got insurance, general liability; we should have gone with a different independent insurance agent. They only offered us one company at $850/yr (the cost is based primarily on your annual sales. The cost went up by around $200 a year for the next four years. We paid without question. Then when we got a bill for a big jump to 1800$/yr we started shopping around. Found a great independent insurance agent who got us double the coverage for $825/yr; again, the cost is based on annual sales. Also, this is for general liability insurance, not product liability insurance. To get product liability insurance every company we approached would have to analyze our products (every product) and our production process. Then, if approved, they would dictate the language that had to go on our labels. Finally, the cost would be huge for the annual premium. HTHdoes your policy specifically show that Products are excluded.. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeriM Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 Yes. I can get sued, but, they still need prove without a doubt I was at fault. If they were negligent in burning the candle (put it by curtains and left unattended for 6 hours) the case will most likely be thrown out, unless of course I (or whoever since this isn't about me) was at fault.I suppose it is true they could sue both me (or whoever) and the business. But from the research I have done, you are a little more protected with the LLC. (www.sba.gov)I wasn't very clear in my typing, I was a tad upset yesterday that people seemed to be ignoring the topic and taking the opporunity to try to make me "look" dumb, when my question was just a general question about how people started out selling. It's not like I haven't done more than enough research on the topic, I was just curious as to others starting process.I also should have been more specific, that the thread wasn't about me not having or wanting to get insurance but about how others started out and when in their process they were ready for insurance. Anyway.but the one thing the policy will do will pay for your defense of any suit brought against you... if you don't have coverage that's coming out of your pocket.. the only way you can protect your personal assests in the case of a suit is by becoming incorporated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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