cmspath Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I am venturing into the pillar world (wholesale account in need) anyway, I have been playing around with 1343 and found the LX30's to work for the few frangances I have tried, but could someone direct me in a direction if I wanted to wick up for some harder fragrances, what would be simular to the LX in a larger size? Thanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 It's going to depend, but you might give flat plys a shot, anywhere from a 27 to a 36 and you might look at square braids, somewhere around a #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 LX wicks may not work right if you're making mottles and rustics. LX 30 is about the equivalent of a 45 ply wick, which is already getting a little crazy. You can get a little larger (not much) but you shouldn't need it if the wicks are performing properly. As Scented said, might be good to try some other types and I would start with smaller sizes than you're using in LX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmspath Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 stupid question - and boy I really feel stupid.. :tiptoe: I have never used a flat ply - are they pretabbed or do you have to make your own... after almost 4 years of making candles, you would think I knew that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted November 13, 2006 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I think they're getable in both forms really. I pretab mine, buy the spools from Candlewic, but they can pre-assemble for you there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmspath Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 This is the burn I got with a LX30 - it looks like it has thick walls but it is just from it hugging in (didnt have to help it along the way) The fragrance is Orange Dreamsickle.. which is a lighter type oil.. I was thinking if I wanted to try something heavier - like Banana Nut bread for example - I would have to adjust the wick up like I do for my jars.. or is that not a true statement? I guess if all else fails, I could buy some sample packs somewhere. and this was with an attempt with rustics.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scented Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 It does look like thick sides. I get just under a 1/4 of a shell using LX26s and LX28s. I rarely go up to the LX30s, which I would use for heavier scents. In most instances I find the LX30s just burn faster. You've gotta see what works best for you, but I don't have a problem with LXs in my applications and they vary from rustic to mottles to whatever. In other words, I don't get the bulge that someone keeps indicating is apparently rampant. I also get a natural hug in that candle doesn't need encouragement to be hugged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 The pool looks fine. If the flame isn't too high when you trim the wick to 1/4" before lighting, then you probably aren't using an NST 2 treated wick.Normally the largest wick you'd need in a 3 inch pillar is occasionally an LX 22. However, the performance of the larger LX falls off in a stearic mixture because the wicks shrivel up towards the tip. So essentially, by using this giant wick in your candle you'd be relying on a malfunction in order for your candle to burn right. They do seem to malfunction pretty consistently, so I guess you could get away with that, apart from having no way to wick up.I collected test data and photographs of LX burning in this kind of mixture with and without the chemical treatment. The difference is night and day. If your LX 30 was working right, you'd have a huge flame and a column of soot. As I mentioned, it's roughly like using a 45 ply wick in your 3 inch candle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalamazoo Posted November 14, 2006 Share Posted November 14, 2006 If that is your first foray into rustics, then congratulations on some awesome pillars. I am battling with the LX series at the moment, although LX24 works pretty well in my 3" pillars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmspath Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share Posted November 14, 2006 It is really hard to see the hug.. that part I was impressed with as it was really not thick at all - I was hoping to capture that with the glow of the candle on the side, but that doesnt work either.. it just naturally curved in.. maybe it is too big of a "hug"???? the flame was a bit larger, but I am use to my flames in the jars .. when I tried a 28, I didnt seem to get the thinner shell as I did with the 30.. I use the 1343 and 3 tbs steric pp wax.. Maybe I will try starting at a 26 and work my way up again.. That was the only ones (pillar set) I have tested so far.. I didnt get the budge until the very end, but it went until about 1 1/2 - 2 inches high before doing that (If you look at my website, those were not made by me - they are Trish's work - I just have to learn this because of my wholesale account) Dang - I hate.. hate wicks and figuring them out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalamazoo Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I found this LX wicking chart which shows Flame Height, Pool Diameter etc. when using the LX wicks and found it quite interesting. http://www.wicksunlimited.com/wedo_LX_wicks.phpTop mentioned quote "Normally the largest wick you'd need in a 3 inch pillar is occasionally an LX 22." unquote.Now I realise that all waxes, FO´s etc behave differently and we all need to test, test, test, but when it states that an LX28 should give a pool diameter of 3.5" and the flame height is 2.4" then I have steered clear of this size for my 3" pillars for the time being. I did try an LX26 once, but even when I trimmed the wick it was just too big of a flame. I am in no way suggesting that large wicks are not the right size, just wanted to put this info out there.:tiptoe: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Crystal, those look great!! I have a feeling you won't be needing my services much longer, lol!!I use 24 and 27 flat ply. I can throw some in your box with this next order if you'd like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I am in no way suggesting that large wicks are not the right size, just wanted to put this info out there.They definitely aren't the right size. They're just frying in stearic mottles and rustics, so they don't perform according to their size. Substitute LX 30 NST 2 in place of plain LX 30 and the wick will perform normally -- meaning it will be a torch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmspath Posted November 15, 2006 Author Share Posted November 15, 2006 Not to worry Trish.. my husband and I already discussed that.. you wont be rid of me that easily.. lol.. if you wouldnt mind doing that - I would be so greatful.. this whole thing takes me back to my container starting days.. days I thought I could forget.. lol..I have no idea what LX 30 I was using (I dont typically use these, but did research and found a lot of people using LX's so started there) They were the ones from Peaks.. I dont know the differnce between the two you mention Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 I have no idea what LX 30 I was using (I dont typically use these, but did research and found a lot of people using LX's so started there) They were the ones from Peaks.. I dont know the differnce between the two you mentionNST 2 is a chemical treatment available for Wedo wicks that helps them burn an acidic candle mixture. Without this treatment, LX won't burn properly with the amount of stearic acid in rustics and many mottled candles when they're made with the formulas typically discussed here.If you're using the largest sizes of LX wicking in 3 inch pillars, then one of two things is happening...Some suppliers automatically provide the NST 2 treatment for LX 24 and up because those sizes were specifically introduced for use in "natural" wax candles. So in a stearic pillar, LX will burn wonky until you get to LX 24 and you might convince yourself the large sizes are the ones to use. But even if you trim short or trim compulsively, someone is eventually going to set a lampshade on fire.The other possibility is that your supplier sells the large sizes without the NST 2 treatment (Peak doesn't mention it for instance), in which case those sizes might be necessary because the performance of the wicks is impaired. In other words, it burns "correctly" because the wick is frying and you're actually relying on that. However, it's not burning like an LX and it's not burning true to size.LX 30 can melt across at least 3 inches of soy container. It's far too big for a 3 inch pillar with almost any FO imaginable. If it seems to be working, it's because something is wrong one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I wanted to post these photos but didn't have them with me. Finally I'm home.This is LX 22 burning for just under 10 minutes in a paraffin pillar with added stearic acid. The one on the left is standard LX and the one on the right is LX NST 2. The wick closeups show how you can often see the tip shrivel up when the wick treatment isn't adequate to deal with the stearic.LX 22 is near the high end of what you'd need to wick most 3 inch pillars. The NST 2 version eventually got a pretty big flame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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